Proposal:Refine departures board tagging
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| Refine departures board tagging | |
|---|---|
| Proposal status: | Rejected (inactive) |
| Proposed by: | Dimitar155 |
| Draft started: | 2022-09-20 |
| RFC start: | 2022-09-20 |
| Vote start: | 2022-10-10 |
| Vote end: | 2022-10-24 |
Proposal
I propose to:
- Introduce new keys into the departures_board:* namespace
- Deprecate passenger_information_display=*
- Promote instead departures_board=*
Rationale
This proposal is a follow up on the rejected previous proposal. The community clearly showed that it prefers departures_board=* over passenger_information_display=*.
Tagging
| Tag | Description | Photo | Note |
|---|---|---|---|
| departures_board=yes | The stop/station has some sort of departures board. | ||
| departures_board=realtime | The stop/station has realtime departures board | ||
| departures_board=analog | The stop/station has realtime departures board | ||
| departures_board=no | The stop/station does not have any departures board |
Optional tags if departures_board=realtime is used:
| Tag | Description | Photo |
|---|---|---|
| departures_board:realtime=countdown | "X minutes until bus on line Y arrives" | 
|
| departures_board:realtime=exact | exact time that the vehicle is going to arrive (usually found in train stations and airports) | 
|
| departures_board:realtime=mixed | shows both (exact time if it's after an hour and countdown if it's less than an hour) | 
|
| Tag | Description | Photo |
|---|---|---|
| departures_board:realtime:next_stops=yes/no | shows whether the realtime board displays the next stops of the route (most often it's found in train stations) | 
|
| departures_board:variable_message=yes/no | shows whether the board can show variable messages (reason for delays, incident information, route diversions and so on) | |
| departures_board:analog:intervals=yes/no | shows whether the stop/station has intervals information (a.k.a. headway) | |
| departures_board:analog:timetable=yes/no | shows whether the stop/station has timetable information (exact hours of next arrivals) |
Note 3: departures_board=analog implies that the stop/station has no realtime departures board.
| Old tags | New tags |
|---|---|
| passenger_information_display=yes | departures_board=realtime |
| passenger_information_display=no | departures_board=analog/no |
| departures_board=realtime | No changes |
| departures_board=timetable | departures_board=analog (see Note 3) |
| departures_board=delay | departures_board=analog (see Note 3) |
Examples
| Current tagging | New tagging | Photo |
|---|---|---|
| departures_board=realtime | 
| |
| departures_board=realtime |
| |
| departures_board=realtime | 
| |
| departures_board=timetable |
|
_18.jpg)
|
| departures_board=delay |
|
|
Rendering
Not applicable.
Features/Pages affected
The following tasks will be done if the vote passesː
- Edit details of the deprecated table of the page Deprecated features#Deprecated features in every language.
- Edit changelog.
- Key:departures board
- Key:passenger information display
- Tag:highway=bus stop
- Tag:public transport=platform
External discussions
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-August/065169.html
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Deprecate_departures_board=realtime
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-February/035256.html
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=71149
Talk:Key:passenger information display
Comments
Please comment on the discussion page.
Voting
Voting closed
Voting on this proposal has been closed.
It was rejected with 3 votes for, 4 votes against and 2 abstentions.
I approve this proposal. --Dimitar155 (talk) 17:57, 10 October 2022 (UTC)- I approve this proposal. --- Kovposch (talk) 18:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
I have comments but abstain from voting on this proposal. Comprehensive scheme that, as far as I can see, covers all possible cases.I still believe that the fundamental direction of this schema is good, but agree with the points raised in other votes (would have been nice if they were raised during the RfC phase, though). --Nw520 (talk) 18:29, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
I oppose this proposal. despite I'm fully in favor of the content of "Proposal", it self-contradictory proposition with "in text" additional tag and additional depreciated tag for which I do not agree, neither on the substance nor on the form (one does not vote on a proposal that contradicts itself) Marc marc (talk) 18:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)- I approve this proposal. Unifying tagging on something? Count me in. --Emilius123 (talk) 20:09, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal. I do not approve of changing departures_board=timetable and departures_board=delay to departures_board=analog. This is unnecessary and less clear. --Jeisenbe (talk) 06:02, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- departures_board=delay is a mistranslation of frequency or headway, and misleading as to whether it provides real-time delay information. departures_board=timetable is not clear either, whether it is exact time or a list of frequency or headway in the time periods only. That's what they are trying to solve.--- Kovposch (talk) 08:26, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- I have comments but abstain from voting on this proposal. There are old-fashioned analog departure boards that get updated in realtime. They often use systems that looks a bit like this (see the link). Using the term "analog" for static timetables looks like a confusion of terms here. --501ghost (talk) 09:28, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- Your example falls under the realtime category. I've forgotten to add it as an image. Dimitar155 (talk) 15:39, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal. - per 501ghost - and there are also electronic timetables not displaying realtime arrival/departure times. Sorry for not commenting during RFC but there is a sudden deluge of proposals. Though slaying misnamed departures_board=delay would be nice. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 10:20, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose This seems like it is conflating two different things and sometimes both a departures board and passenger information display are present. --Bgo eiu (talk) 10:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- Can you define what you mean by "departures board" and "passenger information display"? It seems like my definition is different than yours. Dimitar155 (talk) 14:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal.
- 1. Realtime departure boards can be analogue. Therefore proposing the value analogue is not good.
- 2. The key departure_board=* is already in use (about 201,00 times), your proposal deprecates existing values. If you need new values, invent a new key. With your proposal, data consumers must support the new values immediately.
- 3. The Tagging of the proposal should have been reviewed prior to vote. I looks like it was created in a hurry without keeping readability in mind. I needed multiple times to read. Formatting seems to be broken (e.g. missing paragraph). Both
departures_board:realtime=countdown/exact/mixedanddepartures_board:realtime:next_stops=yes/noare described with the same sentence. --Nakaner (talk) 12:32, 11 October 2022 (UTC)- About point 1: Do you have a better idea for solving it? If you do, feel free to share it.
- About point 2: I could invent a new tag but how many mappers would be willing to use it? How much time would be needed until all major editors start supporting it? In case some data consumer sees new "unknown" to them values, they can refer to the wiki/changelog and see what they need to update in their software. The tagging system has evolved over time, tags have been deprecated, new ones have been introduced. Not changing anything at all would kill the project slowly but surely.
- You are right for point 3, thanks for noticing it. I will fix it and send the proposal for a revote. Dimitar155 (talk) 14:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)