Proposal talk:Man made=evaporation tower

From OpenStreetMap Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Tag Name

Salt / Evaporation tower

I'd suggest using a tag which was a little clearer to the non-initiate, something like salt_graduation_tower or saline_graduation_tower. Initially I thought this was something to do with universities, or an alternative name for a fractionation column. Ideally tags provide enough explanation to get a basic idea of what it is they are describing. SK53 (talk) 15:21, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

@SK53: I know that you don't have any graduation towers in English-speaking countries, but the name "graduation tower" seems to be the most common. Coolawik (talk) 10:55, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
As another native English speaking I was very confused when I saw the image of this, and the name. I too thought it was something to do with graduation from education. This could be a major source of confusion for mappers and data users. Amᵃᵖanda (talk) 11:17, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Can this be said as an "evaporation tower"? --- Kovposch (talk) 07:08, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

@Kovposch: Like... the graduation tower used to be used primarily for the production of salt by evaporation, but now they are only used in medicine (as inhalation with the use of salt). Coolawik (talk) 10:55, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
You could say those are "evaporation tower" + product=salt, these being "evaporation tower" + "graduation"/"inhaling". --- Kovposch (talk) 06:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Those first are rather historic=*; noone use they're for this purpose now - it isn't productive. Coolawik (talk) 15:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

I suggest man_made=evaporator – simple and clear. Something B wiki (talk) 09:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

The value name evaporator is even more general see pictures then the current voted evaporation_tower, thats why i like the more specific brine_concentration_tower or salt_concentration_tower see pictures --MalgiK (talk) 21:45, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

man_made=* key is associated with one gender

This proposal is for a new tag, so you don't need to use the man_made=* key. You could choose another key. It (man_made) is associated with one gender. I suggest you use a different key. Since the thing is built, building=* might make sense, although I don't think you can go inside it. Or structure=*, but Key:structure only talks about power pylons. Amᵃᵖanda (talk) 11:21, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Don't "need", but using it allow any application supporting man_made=* to recognize it generically. I'm more opposed to mixing everything in man_made=*, and worsening the bloat. At the same time, this is a general issue. Asking proposers of specific ideas to find a better tag within the entire database may be an undue burden.
The first 2 examples of building=yes look more of a piece of equipment covered=yes with building=roof on top. They aren't integrated and enclosed, compared to the case of building=disgester (that I don't like).
structure=* is nice and descriptive. Unfortunately as you pointed out, it is currently used as attribute for power=tower, not a feature. Changing this require more effort. (For completeness's sake, structure=* won't able to replace every man_made=* either, Contrary to wording in Key:man_made, some are facilities, land modifications, or even human activity/presence/service (the strange man_made=surveillance + surveillance:type=guard).
--- Kovposch (talk) 06:41, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
artifical=salt_graduation_tower solves 2 issues (man_made & suprising use of “graduation”) Amᵃᵖanda (talk) 08:49, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
That doesn't solve the issue of mixing different categories in man_made=* as a replacement. Slightly less worse is amenity=*, cf amenity=mist_spraying_cooler. --- Kovposch (talk) 06:06, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

man_made=* is general key for man made structures. IMHO, it is suitable for evaporator. Something B wiki (talk) 08:59, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Finishing the issue of tag name

So: after discussion about changing the tag name (couse graduation towers do not exist in English-language countries and the name is not known) we got to know a few suggestions:

  1. man_made=graduation_tower
  2. man_made=salt_graduation_tower
  3. artifical=salt_graduation_tower
  4. man_made=evaporation_tower
  5. man_made=evaporator

Which one would you all agree on? @Kovposch, Something B wiki, Amᵃᵖanda, and SK53:. Coolawik (talk) 16:53, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I prefer man_made=evaporator Something B (talk) 22:11, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
The discussion of artificial=* vs man_made=* is generic & not relevant to this proposal. I think we still need to keep the notion of a tower, so I'd favour man_made=evaporation_tower. A generic tag for evaporator could equally apply to salt pans and other low tech ways of making salt. SK53 (talk) 11:54, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Resolved: Tag was changed to man_made=evaporation_tower as the most clear name for it. Coolawik (talk) 16:38, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


origin=* is quite disorganized and unclear, for use on shop=*. You could use something similar to water_source=*. --- Kovposch (talk) 06:20, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

@Kovposch: brine_source=*? Coolawik (talk) 15:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Can you make up an example how it is to be used? Type or freeform text name? You haven't used it for the photos listed. Something I didn't like in water_source=* is potentially having a *_source=* for everything. (Unfortunately affected by source:*=* although *:source=* is less standard)
Is it possible some brine are sourced separately to be mixed on site? Then you would need water_source=* + eg salt_source=*.
--- Kovposch (talk) 06:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Resolved: I added an example to article. eg. this graduation tower have a brine from Zabłocie (there's a board which tells about it: Link to brine source board in Polish) Coolawik (talk) 16:15, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Redundancy, conflict, or separate object

The combination building=* + covered=* doesn't make much sense. It is either a structure itself, or be covered under something else. As compared in Talk:Proposed_features/man_made=graduation_tower#202209120641_Kovposch, they might actually be two different features that should be represented individual objects. --- Kovposch (talk) 06:50, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Resolved: covered=* is deleted from article. Coolawik (talk) 15:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Proposal for easier demonstrate to introduce of more than one new tag within a prososal page

Option 1) using the key prarmeter line, | key = man_made=evaporation_tower, brine_source=* see example:

{{Proposal Page | name = Proposal for man_made=evaporation tower and brine source | user = Coolawik | key = man_made=evaporation_tower, brine_source=* | type = {{IconNode}}, {{IconArea}} | definition = evaporation/graduation tower (btw. should be a description text, more then just the value name) }}

See also another example where many new keys were introduced: Proposed_features/Advanced_cycle_barrier_tagging

Option 2) using a table of 2 templates

{| | {{Proposal Page | name = Proposal for man_made=evaporation tower and brine source | user = Coolawik | key = man_made | value = evaporation_tower | type = {{IconNode}}, {{IconArea}} | definition = evaporation/graduation tower (btw. should be a description text, more then just the value name) }} || {{Proposal Page | name = Proposal for man_made=evaporation tower and brine source | user = Coolawik | key = brine_source | value = | type = {{IconNode}}, {{IconArea}} | definition = The origin of the brine in the graduation tower. (the place where the brine is extracted) }} |}