Talk:Tag:amenity=charging station/Tesla Motors

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Tagging

https://www.mail-archive.com/tagging@openstreetmap.org/msg20684.html

operator=Tesla Motors Inc.

...seem to be mostly used. Since OSM discourages abbreviations, should we just sick to "Tesla Motors"? Or how is this usually done with corporations. Not really a fan of adding Incorporated. Also seems to be "Tesla Motors, Inc."

It was officially rebranded to "Tesla, Inc.", I propose using operator=Tesla, Inc. since that is used for new additions and to use brand=Tesla.

authentication:*=*

... I can't find any tags that fits on amenity=charging_station. I think it's basically does it over the plug and some data cable. Not every Tesla can actually charge there, for some cars it's an extra upgrade you have to purchase. Not sure authentication:cable/plug/automated/?/=*

Or is authentication:none=no enough?

Authentication is implied, so I would propose to not use that key for superchargers from Tesla. Pander (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

access=customers

....obviously means for Tesla customers, but what if a station is actually limited to for example hotel guests? Not really that important right now, but if someone has a good idea...

...Should this be changed to operator=Tesla instead of Tesla Motors? The motors part could be dropped.

See above regarding operator=Tesla, Inc., but for destination charging, see below. Pander (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

ref=location specific name

...Should we be adding Tesla's reference name for each location (for instance "ref=Angola, Indiana")?

plug:tesla_supercharger/tesla_supercharger_CCS

...Wouldn't that be a better key name for tethered cables with plug than socket?

Supercharger Plug Type

It seems that right now there is more than one plug in use for supercharger stations (worldwide).
Example: The EU superchargers do have a Type2 like plug while the US superchargers do have a proprietary plug. If you decide to import a US Tesla to Europe or drive your US Tesla in the EU (or vice versa) you - at least as far as I know - can not use any of the superchargers, because there are no converters for it. Thereby an additional tag that would specify which type of plug is used in the supercharger would be a smart idea.
I thought about something like tesla_supercharger_type or tesla_supercharger:type = NAME
Any ideas or comments about that? --TBKMrt (talk) 17:45, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Because of the lack of comments - none at all to be precise - I count this discussion as no one cares. So if there is a new key called tesla_supercharger:type no one will complain. --TBKMrt (talk) 19:53, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
New key-tag combinations:
  • tesla_supercharger:type - What type of charging connector is used
    • Type2 like connector: type2
    • US connector: ? (it's name or acronym)
  • tesla_supercharger:version - What version the charging station is at
    • int value of the version number (currently gen is 2, version 3 said to be published this summer)
Existing key-tag combinations:
  • socket:tesla_supercharger:output - the electric power output of the respective plug (watts)
  • socket:tesla_supercharger:current - the current of the respective plug (ampere)
no comment for over a year, can we do better than that and get 1.5 or 2 years?
--TBKMrt (talk) 23:34, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Destination Charging

I was wondering: what about Tesla's destination chargers? Is there a pattern how to map them properly? Nothing is mentioned in this article.

Some questions regarding destination charging which comes into my mind:

  • is Tesla the operator or is it the "Charging Partner"?
  • as the destination chargers are one stall per car, create a node for every stalls or just one for all?
  • how to make clear that some of the stalls are available only for tesla and some of them for everyone?
  • which socket to map, type2?
  • how to map that the destination charger is only for customers of the shop how installed the chargers (typically access=customer but it maybe collides with "only for tesla customers")

--Nickel715 (talk) 21:05, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

I would have to check a destination charger to see how they are configured. Regards your questions:
  • operator: I think the operator is the partner at the destination location
  • one stall per car: No, just tag them like other charging stations with multiple stalls
  • tesla only stalls: if they are separated they could be tagged as two different nodes. If not I don't think that there really is a standard way of doing it. You can place a note key, but that wouldn't solve the problem
  • socket type: add the socket that will be found there no matter what it is. If you can charge an EU Tesla it's more than likely Type2, not sure how it is in the US.
  • shop vs tesla only: like above. if the shop is the operator then access=customers is not a problem even if it's tesla only since even as tesla person you can only charge your EV there if you go into the shop
Maybe it's best for now to leave them as separate points when you have tesla only and customer only charging ports since it's not really commons to have such a restriction. usually the charging station is private OR public
--TBKMrt (talk) 18:03, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply.

  • operator: I checked the documentation for operator and it correspond with your suggestion. The operator tag is described: "who is directly in charge of the current operation of a map object" this applies to the charging partner. In addition (as the chargers are Tesla branded) I would use brand=Tesla.
  • tesla only stalls: As the destination chargers usually always only for customers of the operator access=customer definitely makes sense. But I also have no idea how to map the difference for tesla only. So the best solution would be the note I think.

Finally I came up with the following tagging suggestion, what do you think guys?

Destination Chargers

There are two types of destination charger. The one for Tesla only and the charger for all EVs. If there are charger for non-Teslas there are also Tesla chargers. So you need to create two nodes, one for Tesla only and one for all EVs like in the following example.

For Tesla only stalls

The boxes with the red "Tesla vehicles" sign.

Better to use for the second bullet operator=Hotel XYZ or operator=Tesla, Inc. Pander (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2019 (UTC)


For "All EV" stalls

The boxes with the white "Electric vehicles" sign.

Discuss: Talk:Tesla_Motors#Destination_Charging

--Nickel715 (talk) 21:53, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

I would like to suggest the following for destination and superchargers.

The reason for this is that there are two types of Tesla chargers. I have three destination chargers at my office but currently there isn't a clear way to tag them, only supercharger which is incorrect. https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/chargers

--vespax 13:32, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

As far as i know, the tesla destination charger is just a special plug in the US. In Europe, we use the standard T2 plug for destination charger which allow easy tagging with socket:type2=* (and only some of them have an internal switch to forbid any non-Tesla to charge but this can be tagged in the description). And for US version, there is the socket:tesla_destination=*. It is far more consistent with existing tagging scheme for amenity=charging_station. Anakil (talk) 13:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata

Are you going to add a brand:wikidata=Q478214 and brand:wikipedia=Tesla,_Inc. similar to shops/restaurants/etc. ? Jnicho02 (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

operator and brand tags

Hello everyone, I changed the operator value as the name of the brand was changed from Tesla Motors to Tesla, Inc. in 2017 which is a long time ago. I hope nobody is against that change. I feel it is just a renaming, and it may lead to more consistent usage (as i see all the possibilities between 'Tesla Motors', 'Tesla Motors Inc.' and 'Tesla, Inc.' in the database). If anyone disagree, please comment ! :-) Concerning the brand tag, i see here that few people proposed brand=Tesla (and that's what is written on the page), while the preset in the ID editor is setting brand=Tesla Supercharger. I suppose ID is using the brand name of Tesla Supercharger (and so linking to the wikipedia page of this brand) instead of Tesla itself. Should we recommend brand=Tesla Supercharger on the wiki too ? Anakil (talk) 13:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

About iD's preset, you should discuss at https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index it's using, by opening an issue (or pull request once you found consensus and edited yourself). How about a network=Tesla to go with brand=Tesla Supercharger? Not all Superchargers are owned (and thus operated) by Tesla, so this would keep an easy tag for Tesla-brand vehicles' use. Kovposch (talk) 18:55, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Good idea. Do you have any example of supercharger not operated by Tesla ? It would help in the discussion to have example of possible value. I don't know of any in Europe at least (but I obviously don't know all of them ^_^). Maybe it is different in the US ? Because Tesla advertise that they maintain and take care of them if they broke down (by monitoring each stall remotely). They also often buy land or rent a parking area for it (for the one I know). Anakil (talk) 19:32, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Woops, I mean the Supercharger station. It would be useful to distinguish which are Tesla's own original sites (very "public" and open), and which are the charging partners' sites. Tesla does take care of the Supercharger stall itself, but that's not what amenity=charging_station is about. I was also thinking about this in general, about other chargers (ie Destination Charger / Tesla Wall Connector, and the upcoming Megacharger). These stations and stalls are already privately owned and operated. Theoretically in the future, it's not impossible to have truly "private" Supercharger stations either (of course still maintained and supported by Tesla). Kovposch (talk) 06:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Branch in relation with owner and operator

@Anakil I see @AndiG88 mentioned

ref=location specific name ...Should we be adding Tesla's reference name for each location (for instance "ref=Angola, Indiana")?

at the earliest time here. It would help to identify operators and owners by adding branch=*, aside from its original use to differentiate between multiple stations nearby. Most Tesla's standalone Supercharger station seemed to be named after places/settlements (toponyms). Most charging partner's stations are named after their site/business (eg malls), only named after the location if it's unique or the only station in the area. This pattern could be further verified/confirmed as an advice or tip to editors.

Examples:
London:
London - Brent Cross: node 3280906970
London - Canary Wharf: node 3046952985 (Canary Wharf Shopping Centre)
London - The Royal Victoria Docks node 2916063434 (The Crystal)
London - Tower Supercharger: node 3137364447
London - Westfield: node 3137361161 (White City)

These also have access=customers. Tesla:ref=* sounds wrong in syntax (should be ref=*, or something like ref:Tesla=* if needed), is not really a "ref", and not very readable. Kovposch (talk) 06:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Oops I didn't saw your mention, so i only answer it now. I'm not really familiar with how the situation is in some countries. But if I understand you correctly, there are supercharger stations operated by other companies than Tesla (forming a "branch") ? (It is not the case in the few countries that i added/used supercharger ;-)).

The following 2 main attributes "name" and "address" seemed enough to uniquely indentify the location in the supercharger that i know (but that's not necessarily true everywhere) :

  • name = "official Name on Tesla Website"
  • address (given by Tesla or from the geometry)

If branch are a thing and useful, i don't see why not use it too. It is already used for some other tags in OSM (like bank, supermarket,...) so why not if relevant ?! :-)

I'm not sure what these "Tesla:ref" add as information ?! I wouldn't support that (and it is not a ref indeed ^_^). --Anakil (talk) 16:18, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

What's in a Name

Can we talk about the name tag? When it is OpenStreetMap policy to only map ground truth, I have yet to see a physical sign at a Supercharger. This page says to use "*Official Name* Supercharger" from the website. When it is OpenStreetMap policy to never use abbreviations, the official name is often derived from an abbreviated form of the location's name. Then, there is the matter of iD locking the name to "Tesla Supercharger", whenever there is a Wikidata tag. I think the reason using ref=*, ref:tesla=* and branch=* keep coming up, is that some renderers (for instance OsmAnd) sub-title the name with the ref value. Rather than using the names on Tesla's website, like "Lansing Supercharger" or "Clare, MI Supercharger", I am tempted to leave the iD locked name "Tesla Supercharger", and add a ref tag with the unabbreviated location portion of the official name, or less tempting, the "official name" (as I would for other amenities with mulitple locations). Despite this temptation, I will continue to use the "official name"; though it is long, awkward, abbreviated and not "ground truth". --TreeStryder (talk) 01:03, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

It's not the only place where we tag something that's not visible on the ground (the mapping what's on the ground rule is more about the main object than its subtag - as for a lot of things the subtag can't be known on the ground). For example, a lot of things have a name and don't have a physical sign about it (like crossroads, named locality known only by local people, ...) and we map them in OSM. Also, these name are what people use for description in most case, that's useful for anyone looking for the charger (like you search for it in Osmand, you can actually search with the name). So this seems fine to me.
For ID, indeed they lock few main tag when we enter wikidata, so that people don't change things without being really a correct thing (it is always possible to change it in the tag, but not in the form). That's a standard behaviour with wikidata items, just to avoid basic vandalism. And for the other apps (like OsmAnd), they choose to show whatever they want, and we don't map for them, so it is not an issue for us.
We can look a bit further at it : the standard official name on the Tesla website is to use "<city name> supercharger" (or if multiple exist or not in a city, they use a named place next to it to help locate it), at least that's how most of them are named. For the abbreviation, it is only in the US to differentiate the city between each state (as you must know that US state have a lot of the same name everywhere :p). I would suppose that any user would understand that, or am i wrong assuming that ? I'm european, and we don't have such problem here, all our supercharger are just named with the city name (or a known place next to it) and the word 'supercharger' - sorry i didn't look at the US when writing this in the wiki ahah. :p
To me, it is at least useful to use this "official" name as i don't know of any other "useful" name that would fit (we don't use the "official_name" tag when there is only one name ^^). And if someone speak about "Clare, MI Supercharger", i would think that anyone understand what we are talking about (even if the others are not using OSM). And if another name is often used to refer to a supercharger, we could use the tag "alt_name" to add this information. --Anakil (talk) 19:46, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Have you considered branch=*? ---- Kovposch (talk) 20:08, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

operator=Tesla instead of operator=Tesla, Inc.

Usually, the name by which the company is best known is used for operator=*, omitting the abbreviation of its legal form (e.g. operator=BP instead of operator=bp p.l.c., operator=Orange instead of operator=Orange S.A.). Therefore, i propose to recommend using operator=Tesla instead of operator=Tesla, Inc.. The former is also slightly more used according to TagInfo. --Dafadllyn (talk) 20:56, 10 September 2021 (UTC)