Talk:Tag:emergency=access point
status: de-facto?
@Maro21: I see you've reverted the status from "de facto" back to "in use". Can you explain your reasoning why do you think it is not de-facto? Looking at Status values wiki I don't see why the fact that there exist other tag with same meaning would influence its status in such way? Specifically, the stated differences from in use and de facto see to be that the latter also has a requirement that "it was not approved in a proposal process, it has a widespread acceptance among mappers".
That it was not approved does not seem to be disputed, so if I understand it correctly it seems your claim is that it does not have widespread acceptance among mappers?
However, looking at its taginfo, it has more than 11 thousand uses, and a steady growth over many years. I'd certainly call that "widespread acceptance among mappers".
Case in point, there also exist e.g. both amenity=hospital and healthcare=hospital, also one as approved and other as de facto, even if they are also synonymous tags. --mnalis (talk) 23:44, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, because it doesn't have widespread acceptance among mappers. If two tags are used for the same thing, it means there is no agreement. The number of uses does not matter.
And because what Tag status says: "Some `in use` tags are very common, but somewhat debated. There may be another in use tag with a similar meaning".
- highway=emergency_access_point is even approved and emergency=access_point came into use after the approval of the first one. So emergency=access_point should be rather deprecated.
- Amenity=hospital tag was de facto even before the first use of healthcare=hospital. maro21 13:46, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Maro21: Well, I do not think that "widespread acceptance of one solution" is synonymous with "unanimous agreement on only one solution" as that line of thinking seem to imply (I can see plenty situations where same problem have multiple popular/widespread solutions). But, even if we accept such line of thinking (that co-existence of popular accepted and de facto popular synonymous tags is impossible, as if there are multiple tags for same purpose, by definition none of them can be de facto as there is some disagreement about which one is better), then certainly such logic applies equally to all other tags, like hospital example above? Even more so there in fact, as "old" de facto amenity=hospital is surely more deserving to be degraded than new approved healthcare=hospital, both by temporal ordering, and by the status tag, and its accepted proposal stating so. I fail to how such reasoning of degrading de facto to in use could apply to emergency=access point but not to amenity=hospital? Would you explain the process which deterministically leads to such results? --mnalis (talk) 14:40, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Amenity=hospital is rendered and supported by a lot of applications, that's why its status is de facto. Emergency=access_point is not rendered and commonly supported by applications and it has an approved equivalent that should be used instead of it. maro21 15:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Maro21: Well, I do not think that "widespread acceptance of one solution" is synonymous with "unanimous agreement on only one solution" as that line of thinking seem to imply (I can see plenty situations where same problem have multiple popular/widespread solutions). But, even if we accept such line of thinking (that co-existence of popular accepted and de facto popular synonymous tags is impossible, as if there are multiple tags for same purpose, by definition none of them can be de facto as there is some disagreement about which one is better), then certainly such logic applies equally to all other tags, like hospital example above? Even more so there in fact, as "old" de facto amenity=hospital is surely more deserving to be degraded than new approved healthcare=hospital, both by temporal ordering, and by the status tag, and its accepted proposal stating so. I fail to how such reasoning of degrading de facto to in use could apply to emergency=access point but not to amenity=hospital? Would you explain the process which deterministically leads to such results? --mnalis (talk) 14:40, 9 July 2023 (UTC)