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Order of member ways and nodes?

In the JOSM relation editor, ways that make up a bus route are shown as connecting (or not). If the bus stops and stop positions are added to the relation, should they be put in near their neighbouring ways or put at the end of the relation list? If the former, the connecting-or-not symbol gets broken in JOSM. What's the correct approach? Sam Wilson 22:19, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Proposed features/Public Transport#Route says that stop positions and platforms should be listed at the beginning. It might be different in the older schemes, if they had a firm recommendation at all. //Essin (talk) 18:33, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
@Essin Thanks, that makes sense. I've updated the page here (although perhaps the explanation I added could be cleared up? There seems to be some mixing of systems here). Sam Wilson 22:38, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
I tried to tweak the text a bit to cover different systems better, but I never map with the old system(s) so there is probably still room for improvement. Especially, "stop" is ambiguous -- in the older systems it might be a node on the side of the way (more common) or a node on the way. In the newer system, I would think of "stops" as the nodes with that role, i.e. stop_position nodes, but I suspect other people might interpret it as the stop_area relations or platform nodes, if they are tagged as public_transport=platform highway=bus_stop. //Essin (talk) 08:08, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Are (empty)/route/forward/backward members optional?

Technically, when reading this page it looks like both (empty)/route and forward/backward roles can have zero recurrences. On the other hand, the general definition of route relations requires at least one member of role (empty)/route/forward/backward/north/south/east/west. I believe this page should be updated accordingly. Zstadler (talk) 08:47, 13 March 2018 (UTC)