Proposal:Pre-School (early childhood education)

Pre-School (early childhood education)
Proposal status:	Obsoleted (inactive)
Proposed by:	Karora
Tagging:	amenity=preschool Data item
Applies to:	node/area
Definition:	Education of young children before they go to school
Statistics:
Rendered as:	As for school
Draft started:
Proposed on:	2007-12-31

Proposal

A tag for pre-school education centres. Also known as a kindergarten

Tags

key=amenity value=preschool
key=name value=<name of the nursery> (optional)
key=operator value=<name of the organisation operating the preschool> may be local council or a private org (optional)

Applies to

nodes and areas

Rendering

something similar to school?

Related

• amenity=kindergarten
• amenity=school

Comments

• Looks good to me, i will support Myfanwy 02:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

• This fits nicely with amenity=school, college, university from map features. Perhaps it's a shame we didn't go for a collective amenity & sub-tags initially, however this is fine as it stands. --DrMark 06:56, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Here in Belgium we have many schools that combine 'basic' school (6-11 year olds) with preschools or kindergarten (2,5-5 year olds). How would that get tagged? What about the Steiner school where children/young adults from 2,5 till 18 year old can go? There happens to be one in my neighbourhood and it was merged a few years ago into one big complex. Polyglot 07:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

While we're at it. What would a place where infants and toddlers can go between 3 months and 3 years be called in proper English? Can someone propose that? Here in Belgium they are sometimes split in two age groups: 3 months - 18 months / 18 months 36 months. Polyglot 07:41, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

There are always going to be problems getting a tag working both generally internationally AND precisely tailored for a particular country's practices. May be what you need is a "creche" (French word?), in a number of English-speaking countries this has the connotation of a place for "very young children" with being specific as to age. MikeCollinson 09:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

my understanding of a creche was that it dod not include education, was more of a aplce to elave kids while parents work/go shopping etc. they are everywhere, in supermarkets, shopping malls, the gym Myfanwy 22:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds about right. So I now have a "creche" I want to map. It's a place in a ski resort where you can leave your small children. amenity=creche? used before 3 times: [1] -- Harry Wood 08:26, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

To polyglot's question: tag the item multiple times, one for each group tat use itMyfanwy 22:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with DrMark's comments and will support this. It will generally work in all the countries I know of. Polyglot, I suggest what we need to do is define that amenity=school means "A general educational establishment for schoolchildren (age may vary from country to country but is generally from 5 or 6 to 16 or 18). Such schools may also have facilities for younger children." . Does that work for you? MikeCollinson 09:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

• why don't using: "amenity=nursery" for pre-school facilities? there are so much country-specific variations of pre-school/nursery-facilities, that I afraid this additional tag will only add chaos. --Cbm 09:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Because nurseries specifically do not do education, whereas preschools are geared for that task. Nurseries are more places that look after children while the parent(s) are working. IME nurseries are aimed towards parents working times (pickup at 5/6pm) whereas preschool ends perhaps 1-3pm. Which of course brings up the question of before/after-school-care... Kleptog 10:03, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
    • you can't specify this for international usage because every country does it another ways. For e.g. in Germany there is educationan also in nurseries. Also the times are not clarifying this. --Cbm 11:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
    • So if you have a unit that does both, which way should we tag it? Does one have priority over the other? All the child-care facilities around here that I've seen do both functions. DancingFool 03:07, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree with Cbm. The nursery value should be sufficient. Translated to German it means: Kindergarten, Kinderkrippe, Hort, Kindertagesstätte, Säuglingsheim, etc. And a nursery school is a pre-school (Vorschule). Thus I see no need for a new value. Toralf 10:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Unfortunately 'Nursery', in my country, is most commonly a place where young plants are grown. The term 'preschool' however is a compound noun with a very clear meaning. Even though I can think of few instances that are actually called something-or-other pre-school, the general term is that the (Kindergarten|Playcentre|Early Childhood Centre|Kohanga Reo) will consider themselves to be a 'pre-school' educational facility. Most of them would be offended to be called a 'Nursery'. The other general term I hear used is 'Early Childhood Educational Facility' but I think it's too much of a mouthful to be useful here. Karora 12:00, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
    • I just looked at the map feature page and couldn't find the value "nursery" for amenity. This isn't an official value yet, it is proposed too. Toralf 21:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

• do we need a more distinctive key? something like key=amenity value=education key=ages value=1-3|3-5|5-16|11-16|5-18|16-18|....etc. this is getting bogged down in semantics and regional variations/ambiguities. should child care (i.e. no education, children left so parents can shop/work) be separate?Myfanwy 22:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I already find amenity=college to be pretty wierd, I admit. In New Zealand a 'College' is almost invariably a (secondary) 'School' for children aged from approximately 13-18 years of age. There does seem to be some international consensus around the terms 'pre-', 'primary', 'secondary' and 'tertiary' education sectors. I chose the term 'preschool' for this proposal because I believe it has greater international consensus and use than the term 'nursery' (which lacks educational associations in some countries, denotes a place for young plants in some countries and might be entirely meaningless in others) Karora 10:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

• I support the basic tag, but I think we should do some more work on age groups. Here in Ontario Canada, we have 3 basic "pre-school" groups -- infants (0-18 months), toddlers (18-30 months) and precshoolers (30months +). It would be useful if we could indicate what age groups a certain centre caters to. Hours of operation are something we should think about as well.

Someone already mentioned "after school programs", but it should be pointed out that many centres are located in other buildings, ie Office buildings, schools, etc. Will this overlapping tagging cause issues (rendering, data wise?).

Finally, should we indicate things like the playground separately? Historybuff 16:49, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

• amenity=university is pretty unambiguous internationally. amenity=school is generic. amenity=college is unfortunately already in use, because it can mean vastly different things internationally. Now adding another internationally problematic tag only makes more problems. Differentiating types of schools could IMHO better be done in a subtag (so amenity=school & school=whatever) or a namespace (amenity=school:whatever). This lets us keep the rendering rules for general maps simple, they can ignore the distinctions if they want. But it gets the data in the database, so you can search on it. (amenity=school|college|university are rendered in the same colour now anyway.) --Cartinus 13:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• As I see it there are many different types of schools and throughout the world the same name is used with different meaning ( 'college' ). For verry basic interpretation by rendering engines I suggest using a verry basic tag, eg. amenity=school (See also comment of Cartinus). For more detailed information I suggest to use type=..., eg. type=university or type=primary school, elementary school. By allowing multiple entries for type a broader range can be covered, hence inlcuding eg. all ages from x to y years of age. Also this would make it possible to include the proposed feature Education Center and thelike. More types may inlcude: elementary school, grammar school, primary school, secondary school, high school, college, university, de:Universität, de:Fachhochschule, de:Fachoberschule, de:Volksschule, dancing school, music school, art academy, kindergarden, de:Waldorfschule, Steiner school, preschool, de:Vorschule, xx:nursery, equestrian school (riding horses), ... . To prevent wild excrescence I find it important to rethink gathering all kinds of amenities having to do with education under one single tag. Thomas P 10:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

• • I think it's wrong to use language tags to give different meaning. If you're doing it that way, we should have country tags, and perhaps in some countries state tags as well. The same word may mean completely different things in the same language but at different places in the world. --Eimai 12:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

According to Myfanwy's comment adding the age might help clearing ambiguities in names. Eg.: amenity=school type=college age=13-18 or amenity=school type=de:Volkshochschule age=adult. Thomas P 11:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Breaking down the type might help too. Eg. type=university subject=electronics, informatics, economy arts or type=arts academy subject=dancing, painting, music

• Perhaps amenity=education; education=preschool|primary|secondary|tertiary and amenity=child_care? It allows for the distinction between educational facilities and non-educational, and seems to define the type of education provided in more internationally recognised terms. Of course this doesn't deal with the fact that we already have amenity=school, amenity=college, etc.

• Since no one have done anything about this tag and the Tag:amenity=kindergarten tag have already been accepted I recommend abandoning the preschool. --Coax 17:33, 20 October 2010 (BST)

I second that --Thod 23:12, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Voting

is not open yet. the tag needs to be proposed and discussed for at least two weeks before it is opened for voting. see the proposed features page for more info
According to date above (Proposed-Date: 2007-12-31) it alrady 8 months since propose date. When will be the voting? --UrSuS 14:11, 29 September 2008 (UTC)