Proposal talk:Menstrual products
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I think the proposal is already very coherent. However, I would like to raise two questions for discussion here:
Is it relevant what type of menstrual product it is?
- I don't see the issue addressed, in particular we should distinguish sanitary towels from sanitary tampons. --Dieterdreist (talk) 12:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
The question is aimed at whether it is generally speaking "irrelevant" whether tampons, pads or disposable menstrual cups are in available or not. Respectively to concretise the tagging even more. --Mcliquid (talk) 20:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Well :D in general, I'd say yes, it is relevant which products are available but for mapping purposes (at least initially) we should ignore that. In the rational of the proposal I wrote regarding that: "This tag should be set to "yes" even if only one type of product is available as the range of possible different items is large (size/absorbency capacity of tampons and pads, features like tampon applicators etc..) and we can therefore not properly map if an exact type of product is there but the information [of a general availability] will still be useful to most." I think most toilets where menstrual products are provided will have a sensible selection. --Moanos (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
Does this also apply to the combination of "toilet=yes" at other amenities?
If a restaurant or campsite is marked with toilets=yes, how should the tagging be placed here? --Mcliquid (talk) 20:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- Here my missing OSM knowledge shows but I thought it'd be possible to do something like toilet:menstrual_products=yes ? --Moanos (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
Should sanitary bin availability be tagged separately?
“Definition: Adds information to a toilet whether there are period products or a waste bin available”
Is it potentially confusing to cover both of these with the same tag? If I understand correctly, the current proposal wouldn’t let end users distinguish between: 1. I can dispose of used period products here in a sanitary way. 2. I can obtain new/unused period products here.
Or perhaps these always go together in practice, so separate tagging would be redundant? ArcticRocinante (talk) 21:34, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
- I am so sorry, this was copied from a previous draft of the proposal (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Toilets:_Period_product_and_wastebin_availability), waste bins are not in scope of this proposal. You are completely correct that these are two different things. My initial thought was that to bundle adding toilets:menstrual_products and toilets:waste_bin together in one proposal but it was pointed out to me that splitting would make more sense. I removed the mention of waste bins from the description --Moanos (talk) 21:42, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
All good, thanks for clarifying! ArcticRocinante (talk) 21:51, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
Dispensers outdoor
Resolved: Tagging schema for outdoor dispensers exists and will not be changed by proposal, proposal has scope toilets --Moanos (talk) 12:02, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Where I live there are some dispensers outdoor that are equipped with menstrual products and can be used free of charge (e.g. osm:node/9267621655).
I would prefer it if the tagging scheme proposed here was also compatible with occurrences of such dispensers outside of toilets. In this respect: How would I tag a dispenser as described above? --Nw520 (talk) 02:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- IMHO the current way to tag this works and does not need to be changed. So a dispenser would be tagged like it is here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9267621655. I think this is similar to a drinking fountain outside of bathrooms that would be tagged as separate node while water is tagged as amenity=toilets + drinking_water=yes. --Moanos (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Use 'service:menstrual_products' instead
Resolved: Proposal has a different scope. Happy to re-open if this is not a shared opinion --Moanos (talk) 11:55, 25 January 2024 (UTC)In my opinion, it would be better to use service=* instead of toilets:*=*. Some places offer menstrual products (e.g. food banks, social centers or anarchist centers) even though they do not offer toilets. --Pietervdvn (talk) 21:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- Others already mentioned to drop toilets:*=* , but I find your example showing a different aspect. This is an accompanying "amenity" to the visitor, not a product or service offered. Eg drinking_water=* vs vending=water / shop=water . You don't need to ask the staff (usually?), or find it from the shelves. They aren't given out en masse to everyone publicly, only visitor using the venue (technically).
As food banks can give out these, diapers, toiletries, and detergents, ideally they should be considered together, so they won't be confused in social_facility=food_bank in the future. Still, toilets:*=* is an acceptable compromise, although I find toilets:*=* itself bad. handwashing:*=* from toilets:handwashing=* is already not toilets:handwashing:*=* .
—— Kovposch (talk) 05:18, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Kovposch here. I see the argument that menstrual products could be provided in a lot of places I see a difference in giving them out in food banks or community centers and having them available on a toilet where they will be used. I would not be against using service=* in other places to indicate the availability, but this feels like another issue to tackle and not in scope of this proposal --Moanos (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Choice vs accessibility
Resolved: Considering the different options I feel the solution in the proposal seems the best --Moanos (talk) 12:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)*=limited shouldn't be used for "available on certain toilets". Unfortunately I find changing_table:location=* a bad format. It overlaps with toilets:wheelchair:*=* , and doesn't allow showing whether it is a table in the common area or room-like stall in that toilet.
—— Kovposch (talk) 05:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Why do you think this should not be used? Because it does not specify where menstrual products can be found? I see this concern and tried to address this in the proposal. Due to the large number of possible bathroom layouts, and options to place menstrual products I would prefer ease of mapping to detail. Or do you have an alternative in mind that could work? --Moanos (talk) 16:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Free or for sale?
Resolved: Clarified in proposal(discussed marking this as resolved with Dieterdreist in PM)--Moanos (talk) 11:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Make it clear what "available" is about (can you buy them? Are they there for free? -> how do you express it, fee=yes/no? --Dieterdreist (talk) 12:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- It is assumed here (which I'll document in the proposal more clearly) that thy will be available for free, similar to toilet paper. For other cases I think the vending machine tag is more appropriate: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:vending%3Dfeminine_hygiene --Moanos (talk) 12:30, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
Disposal bags
Resolved: Documentation will be given (discussed marking this as resolved with Dieterdreist in PM)--Moanos (talk) 11:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)The current tag could be confused with disposal bags for menstrual products. As every woman knows, you should not throw these products into the water closet, they must be put in the bin, to encourage doing it in a hygienic way, often disposal bags are provided. The tagging "menstrual_products=yes/no" could be interpreted as relating to these products. --Dieterdreist (talk) 12:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think clear description of the tag should prevent confusion. Sources like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_hygiene use menstrual products in a similar way, therefore I don’t think there is a large number of people that would confuse disposal bags for menstrual products. These should be a different tag IMHO. I don’t see a better wording for the proposed tag, but feel free to suggest one --Moanos (talk) 13:45, 23 January 2024 (UTC)