Talk:Key:aerodrome:type

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why not aerodrome tag?

Proposed features/Aerodrome had way more activity than this. Why not use that tag instead of this?

aerodrome:type is used 2985 times
aerodrome is used 954 times
aerodrome:type=public do not say anything about the size or style, it is only the opposite of military and private.
aerodrome:type=military should be tagget with military=airfield
Maybe you can help further to describe the types of airport?--geozeisig (talk) 13:04, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Looks like you've removed a number of aerodrome=* and that that's why the number is lower than it used to be. I'd still rather contribute to the aerodrome tag than aerodrome:type. --Hjart (talk) 17:23, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
It would be a mechanical edit - can you link changesets involved? I am curious where it was discussed Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
No "mechanical" edit - unless of course it was performed as large numbers of 1 edit changesets, which is entirely possible. What I noticed was a number of aerodrome=* in Denmark being replaced by aerodrome:type (example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/59287104) and last I looked (½ a year ago) the number of aerodrome=* was considerably higher than now. I'm just assuming Geozeisig is responsible for the majority of that drop. Also aerodrome=* is still much better documented (despite still being in a proposal state) than aerodrome:type=*--Hjart (talk) 07:41, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Repeated 1 edit changesets are still mechanical edits if individual objects are not properly verified, what may require survey in some cases Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:18, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
If you want I may be able to run script through Geozeisig edits and list removals of aerodrome tag. This user has history of making mechanical edits mass-removing tags and then immediately using low usage of affected tag as an argument in tagging discussions. It is exactly this kind of malicious edits that makes good faith mechanical edits harder to make as people suspect trickery. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:22, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Yes please, I would like to know how much the number of aerodrome tags in use dropped due to Geozeisig edits.--Hjart (talk) 11:52, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
As the first step I made a straightforward check - according to http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/z9i on 2018-01-01 aerodrome tag was used 1273 times [278 nodes, 161 lines, 834 polygons] (press run button to run query). So about 1/4 was removed in less than 5 months. Now I will run it through my script for tag removal check. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 20:22, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
At least 478 cases. List is at https://gist.github.com/matkoniecz/23bd62764cac4ed81984bb1f8af52dc8 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:14, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
ANd other variant of search - https://gist.github.com/matkoniecz/23bd62764cac4ed81984bb1f8af52dc8#file-better-log - found 514 removals Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 20:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Before doing any great statistics about my tagging work, it would be better to discuss with the content of the tag aerodrome: type. Before I created the page in April you could read about this topic only on the side aeroway = aerodrome something:
Values: international, public, regional, gliding, private or abandoned.
Nobody could say what public or private should mean.--geozeisig (talk) 13:09, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Why didn't you ask?--Hjart (talk) 14:00, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
I also find it interesting that this page is listing aerodrome=* tags as "possible mistakes". They definitely were not mistakes. --Hjart (talk) 07:41, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Feel free to edit page, this is a wiki Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:23, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Note that this is also discussed in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/58396491#map=3/21.40/1.84 and https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/59287104#map=16/55.4357/9.3307 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:29, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

public

aerodrome: type = public is by far the most commonly used value according to Taginfo. Therefore, it should appear in some form on this wiki page, either in the list of possible values or in the list of tagging mistakes. - Discostu36 (talk) 12:24, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Unhelpful page - no description or definition of values

Currently there is no definition or description for any of the tags or values on this page. It's not much help for mappers or database users in this state. It would be very helpful if someone is willing to review how the tags are currently being used, checking in several different countries, and report back. Is there a clear way to decide how an aerodrome should be classified? --Jeisenbe (talk) 12:06, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

The airfields should be differentiated according to size and type. Since a division into large, medium and small does not make sense, there are international, regional and airfield. And there are airfields for gliding.
There is still the type private. But what is the definition? An example I would accept is Finkenwerder. This is a factory for airplanes, but you can not depart there.
Most common is public (1289x). Is that the opposite of private? It is meaningless in my eyes.
aerodrome:type=airfield and aeroway=airstrip seems to have the same meaning. Maybe you could put them together? --geozeisig (talk) 09:03, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
When you tag an airport as aerodrome:type=international what does this mean? Does it have to have a certain number of international flights? Does it have to have customs agents there every day? I know of several airports that are called "Medford International Airport" or "Jayapura International Airport", but have not had any regular, scheduled international passenger flights as long as I have lived there.
What does aerodrome:type=regional mean? Does it have to have commercial passenger flights? How often, every day, every week?
Is aerodrome:type=airfield for farmer's airstrips, or for "general aviation" airports where private plane owners can fly their planes, or where you can take flight lessons in small planes? Some general aviation airports have lots of services like repair facilities, fuel stations, hangars, offices with staff, weather stations, etc; but some small airstrips have none of these, just and unpaved runway, and no scheduled flights. I've been using aerodrome=airstrip for these in Indonesia. --Jeisenbe (talk) 10:01, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Oh, I see that the definitions should be even more accurate. But in principle I would suggest 3 categories. The description should be as general as possible, so as not to raise too many questions.
For the small category we have aerodrome:type=airfield (263x), aeroway=airstrip (4528x), aerodrome:type=airstrip (20x), aerodrome=airstrip (202x). How are they different? Can you define that exactly? Or are some the same? --geozeisig (talk) 12:54, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Re: aeroway=airstrip (4528x) - over 3500 are in New Zealand from a single import. Since then some other mappers have added this tag, but it did not have a wiki page or description until January 2017. Since then maybe some of the new ones added have followed this definition on the wiki page: " Airstrips often have no permanent supporting infrastructure and may be grazed by stock when not in active use. The field may need to be overflown before landing to ensure it is safe to use." I added many of the aerodrome=airstrip myself, as mentioned, for unpaved runways with no supporting infrastructure (no terminal buildings) and no scheduled air service. I don't know how people have been using aerodrome:type=airfield - but there are only 263, so you could probably download them all to JOSM and take a look. --Jeisenbe (talk) 22:07, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Small airfields

There are currently at least 4 variants how to tag small airfields (look above). Maybe they mean the same thing.

For the key, I would prefer aerodrome:type=* before aerodrome=* of course with aeroway=aerodrome together. That would have the advantage that already now a symbol appears in the map. In the future another symol should be found.

Or is it better to do without aeroway=aerodrome and only use the key aeroway=*?

And what would be better for the value airfield or airstrip? --geozeisig (talk) 07:54, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand why we should use aerodrome:type=* rather than aerodrome=*; the ":type" adds no information and takes several extra keystrokes to enter. I believe the consensus is that tags that specify the "type" of a main feature should be in the form "featurekey=A" + "A=type_of_A"; that is, aeroway=aerodrome + aerodrome=[[Tag:aerodrome=<type>|<type>]]. --Jeisenbe (talk) 11:42, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
I believe "airfield" and "airstrip" have different connotations, at least in American English. Really, we should make a proposal and discuss this more widely so we can find out what these words mean to people from other language groups: eg, British English, Australian, etc.. But according to Oxford and Cambridge, in British English:
Oxford: Airfield: An area of land set aside for the take-off, landing, and maintenance of aircraft.
Cambridge: Airfield: a level area where aircraft can take off and land, with fewer buildings and services than an airport and used by fewer passengers
So it sounds like this means "small aerodrome", perhaps including "general aviation" aerodromes?
Oxford: Airstrip: A strip of ground set aside for the take-off and landing of aircraft.
Cambridge: Airstrip: a long, flat piece of land from which trees, rocks, etc. have been removed so that aircraft can take off and land: "We landed at a tiny airstrip in the middle of the jungle."
So, an airstrip probably has no buildings or facilities, unlike an airfield. This matched my American English understanding of the term. --Jeisenbe (talk) 11:42, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
American English definitions:
Merriam-Webster airstrip: a runway without normal air base or airport facilities.
Merriam-Webster airfield: an area of land from which aircraft operate: such as a : AIRPORT b : AIR BASE.
So in American English, "airfield" has a very wide definition, including military airfield ("Air base" in US English) and most types of aerodromes, but an "airstrip" is pretty clearly just a runway without any facilities. --Jeisenbe (talk) 11:47, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Proposal: more useful and verifiable classes

Taking a look at Wikipedia Aerodrome and Airport, the 3 main types of civilian flying are 1) Commercial Air Transport (regular airlines) 2) General Aviation (mainly private flights and small planes) and 3) Aerial Work (Not transportationg. Eg. aerial survey and photography, spotting, aerial stock mustering, search and rescue, crop dusting). And then there is 4) military avaition - which already has it's own tag, military=airfield.

For general map users and mappers, the important distiction is between "airports" in the common sense, which offer regularly scheduled commercial flights, and "general aviation" airfield and aerodrome which are not open to the generally traveling public - though they are quite interesting for pilots and for recreational flying, or private flights. I also think it's useful to distinguish airfields which have some services (like fuel, hangars, radio, etc) from airstrips which are just an unpaved runway with no facilities or services. And we can also have a tag for international airports, which have customs facilities and regularly scheduled international commercial flights via airlines.

So this would look like:

  • aerodrome=airstrip - An unpaved runway with no facilities or services, and no regularly scheduled commercial flights. Might be used for aerial work (crop dusting etc) or rare chartered flights.
  • aerodrome=general_aviation - A small aerodrome used for general aviation mainly: corporate flights, chartered flights, recreational flying, air sports, but NOT for regularly scheduled commercial airline flights (Many are tagged as "airfield" currently, maybe?")
  • aerodrome=commercial - An "airport" in the popular sense: an aerodrome with regularly scheduled commercial airline flights (I would define "regularly scheduled" as "at least once a week" in most places, though perhaps if it's an extremely small and remote island, regular flight every 2 weeks or once a month would still be worth mentioning, if that's the only way on and off the island)
  • aerodrome=international - An international airport is a commercial "airport", which also has regularly scheduled international commercial airline flights, and additional facilities for customs and passport control. Again, I'd think you would need at least one international flight a week, for verifiability and to be useful for general users.
I've created a formal proposal: Proposed_features/Key:aerodrome --Jeisenbe (talk) 07:43, 10 September 2019 (UTC)