Proposal talk:Aircraft crossing
Aeroway=displaced_threshold
When I saw this proposal I immediately thought of Sumburgh Airport, Shetland (UK). The highway/aeroway crossing there is in fact across the "displaced threshold". It seems that there is currently not a clear concensus whether displaced thresholds should be tagged as aeroway=runway + runway=displaced_threshold or aeroway=displaced_threshold (the tagging at Sumburgh is the latter but has flipped between the two based on various editors' preferences).
Currently, the proposal says that the crossing should "be used on nodes that are shared by a highway=* or railway=* and an aeroway=taxiway, aeroway=runway...". This is quite prescriptive and excludes aeroway=displaced_threshold - which I'm sure is not the intention (of course, if the community settled on the aeroway=runway + runway=displaced_threshold tagging scheme this would be a moot point).
I wonder if this proposal should carefully dodge this issue by tweaking the current text to say "...to be used on nodes that are shared by a highway=* or railway=* and a suitable aeroway feature, such as aeroway=taxiway or aeroway=runway, to indicate points..." (or something similar). Casey boy (talk) 13:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks Casey. You’re correct; I didn’t intend to enforce or imply a particular displaced threshold tag scheme (or indeed, any other alternate aeroway tag that would be relevant. I was trying to distinguish between the “apron”/not navigable features as runways.
I definitely agree with your suggested wording, and I’ll look to implement it shortly. Diacritic (talk)
Resolved: Highways Crossing Temporary Heliways
Was looking at the OSMCha recent changes and spotted this interesting example https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1024052901. Need to think through the implications; is an "airside area" temporary? Does a taxiway exist even when there isn't any infrastructure on the ground? --Diacritic (talk) 07:34, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
So only public roads?
It seems implied but not clearly stated - so it would apply to public roads only, not to internal service roads? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Essentially, yes, but I’m increasingly unsure about the wording. The tag would not be applied to service roads on the apron or for groundcrew (baggage carts, catering trucks, tow vehicles). But I suppose the road doesn’t necessarily need to be public: for example, a service road that exclusively serves air traffic controllers driving to the but could cross a taxiway or runway with facilitated crossing.
- Maybe the wording needs to be tweaked slightly to make the boundaries clearer? Diacritic (talk) 20:07, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Why though? You can add access=private for internal roads. As I understand, these crossing points are still important. railway=crossing and railway=level_crossing should still be used on roads in depots and yards. --- Kovposch (talk) 20:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- I wanted to distinguish between a service road that groundcrew would use to _access_ an aeroway and a road that crosses an aeroway. There isn’t anything particularly interesting about intersections between groundcrew service roads and aeroways: groundcrew often carry radios, have specialist training, and follow airport procedures with regards to movements. An intersection in the airside area is very routine and not particularly useful for routing considerations.
- These types of crossings are unique, though, as ordinary traffic is essentially external to the “aeroway network” of traffic. Diacritic (talk) 21:04, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Agreed on the need to distinguish between the two, also from the point of view of visualizing these crossings. If a renderer wants to show these in some manner (which makes sense for public roads crossing a runway), crossings of internal service roads should probably not be included (or limited to higher zoom levels). I don't think having the crossing road set to private access gives renderers (or data consumers interested in highlighting such rare crossings) enough to work with. Unlike railway crossings, such service crossing often don't even have a physical manifestation beyond a service road ending on one side of the runway and continuing on the other (example). Also some private roads may well be suitable for this tag (access-limited roads that cross the runway but which are not internal service roads of the airport). --JeroenHoek (talk) 08:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- Why though? You can add access=private for internal roads. As I understand, these crossing points are still important. railway=crossing and railway=level_crossing should still be used on roads in depots and yards. --- Kovposch (talk) 20:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Issues Outstanding
I have written some issues about this proposal to ensure each is addressed before this proposal proceeds. Tried to do a lot of research over last two weeks but more time required.
- Include negative examples where not applicable?
- Very difficult to use overpass turbo to find examples: There are an overwhelming number of examples where a service road at a minor airport "becomes" a taxiway.
- Airport Runways/Taxiways are almost always close to a highway/railway, even if they don't intersect
Public Roads/Private Roads distinction - is airside the right differentiator?adjusted definition Diacritic (talk) 07:02, 16 February 2022 (UTC)"Temporary" Airside areas/closures due to low flying aircraft?adjusted definition. Diacritic (talk) 07:02, 16 February 2022 (UTC)- Need to incorporate clearer examples, better pictures
- Signage examples?