Proposal talk:Key:is sidepath/Archive 1

Associated street name

This scheme could be a simple way to establish relationships between roads and roadside paths that are otherwise impossible or only possible through complex geometric calculations (which few routers do). In the meantime, "is_sidepath_of" is sometimes used to represent the location near main roads. An important feature that is still missing here is the street name of the associated street. I think "name" is unsuitable on sidewalks and bicycle paths, but how about "is_sidepath_of:name"? (Or can anyone find a shorter version?) --Supaplex030 (talk) 18:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Would go with sidepath:of:name=*, see below. --Skyper (talk) 19:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree that a sidepath_of:name key (or whichever phrasing you prefer) would be quite useful. The relationship between separately mapped sidewalks and the road they belong to is hard or impossible to reliably determine in an automated fashion. --Tordanik 18:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I have started to use is_sidepath=yes, is_sidepath:of=* with the value of highway=* of the major road plus is_sidepath:of:name=* and is_sidepath:of:ref=* with the values of the corresponding tags of the major road. Additionally, I have just created a small JOSM preset but refrained from publishing it for now as external preset. --Skyper (talk) 19:54, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Great! I decided to use the same notation in my test area (see e.g. this footway) and in the documentation of our local community we will also mention these values in future. Edit: By the way, I do not use is_sidepath=* if footway=sidewalk is tagged, as I think this implies is_sidepath=yes, but I mainly use the extensions to reference to street name and street classification.--Supaplex030 (talk) 20:04, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

I still use both path or footway with value sidewalk and additionally is_sidewalk=yes but yes it is a duplication. If you would ask me I prefer is_sidepath over *way=sidewalk.

I just tried to upload my preset to this wiki but it is not accepted (xml code). Code block does not work either as the macro has problems with question marks. Before spending more time and looking at current numbers, I changed my mind and will release it in a few days. Have to do little testing and did not find a nice icon, at it best .svg, so far. --Skyper (talk) 20:54, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Preset is online. Take a look at is_sidepath and install it through Tagging Presets Preferences. --Skyper (talk) 13:29, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

shorter keys (solved)

Did you consider to use sidepath=yes or side_path=yes? Are the reason for using underscore (_) for separator? I'd prefer a colon (:), e.g. sidepath:of=* --Skyper (talk) 19:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

+1. On the other hand it is already used 2.670 times. Would a mass edit be acceptable in this case? (taginfo) --Supaplex030 (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

We need no mass edit, now. First straighten out, if this tag is useful and how it should be used and which key seems to be the best. How about looking into more details like, how many different users did add it and asking them for some words. Where is it used? Once we have a clear view, we could still wait for local community members to change the data or then ask about a mechanical edit.
Anyway, we need to get in touch with the owner Chris66 and smartly change this proposal or create a new one. --Skyper (talk) 23:40, 15 September 2020‎ (UTC)

It looks like sidepath=* is already used but not with one meaning, as it is not clear if it is intended for the main road or the side path, is_sidepath=yes is the better choice. Gonna adjust my edits. --Skyper (talk) 12:54, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

It is not working well, as it would no longer be an access tag. And sidewalk=separate/cycleway=separate exist already Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 20:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

sidewalk=separate/cycleway=separate is used on highways to indicate that they have a sidepath, but is_sidepath=* is used on the sidepath itself to indicate that it is the sidepath. It's not an access-Tag, it's a hint for geometrical/routing/rendering purposes. Or do I missunderstand your point?--Supaplex030 (talk) 20:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

" sidepath=* is used on the sidepath itself to indicate that it is the sidepath" - you probably think about footway=sidewalk. I admit that I got confused, I thought that it is a proposal for bicycle=use_sidepath/foot=use_sidepath Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 21:48, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

The problem with footway=sidewalk is that is is to specific. I used a lot path=sidewalk but I am not happy with that, neither. So, I started to use sidepath=yes I need a tag which is corresponding to use_sidepath on the major road and valid for all kinds of minor ways like highway=service, highway=track, highway=footway , highway=cycleway, highway=bridleway and highway=path. This way, we could silently deprecate footway=sidewalk. --Skyper (talk) 23:23, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

"The problem with footway=sidewalk is that is is to specific. I used a lot path=sidewalk" - it is perfectly fine to use footway=sidewalk on highway=path and highway=construction + construction=footway (or construction=path). Yes, Osmose complains, but this is validator prone to false positives, and it is just a known bug that they failed to fix - see https://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/issues/462 (feel free to upvote that issue) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

"This way, we could silently deprecate footway=sidewalk." - I see no benefit from doing this, especially as it is in a significant use Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:01, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

From my point of view, the central use case are cycle paths. With this scheme you can, for example, "avoid main roads" in routing, if cycle paths on main roads are mapped separately.--Supaplex030 (talk) 07:39, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I changed my mind as sidepath=* was too ambiguous I promote is_sidepath=* now. --Skyper (talk) 19:54, 23 April 2021 (UTC)