Proposal:New barrier types

New barrier types
Proposal status:	Approved (active)
Proposed by:	dieterdreist
Tagging:	barrier=* Data item
Applies to:	node,way
Definition:	a proposal to add several new barrier types
Statistics:
Rendered as:	*
Draft started:	2010-05-12
RFC start:	2010-09-20
Vote start:	2011-09-01
Vote end:	2011-09-15

Reasoning

Following a discussion on talk-DE started on 2010-05-03 this proposal promotes several new values to add to barrier=* and some new subtags for access controls and other useful combinations, which have proven to be missing in actual mapping.

Tag values

Key	Value	Element	Use count 2012-12-06	Comment	Rendering	Photo
barrier	swing_gate		787 , 2	This is a gate similar to a lift gate but rotates sidewards to open. It is usually made out of metal bars (wood or other material possible) and is intended to prevent cars from access but can usually be crossed by pedestrians and cyclists.
barrier	rope		51 , 79	this is a flexible barrier made of fibres, twisted or braided together to improve strength. As a barrier it is often more symbolic than actually physically preventing pedestrians from accessing.
barrier	cable_barrier		0 uses	Also called guard cable. This is a road side or median barrier made of steal wire ropes mounted on weak posts. See also the more extensive wikipedia description.		File:5-wire-rope-barrier.jpg
barrier	chain		1384 , 185	use this when the passage is closed by a chain. This kind of barrier can usually be crossed by pedestrians, but it might be forbidden to do so		[1]
barrier	log		160 , 47	use this when the passage is closed by lumber (trunk of a tree). This kind of barrier is often useful to sit on. This barrier is a penalty to cyclists but can be crossed by lifting the bike over.
barrier	turnstile		1973 , 4	use this for small turnstiles like the ones in supermarkets or some subways
barrier	full-height_turnstile		95 , 2	use this for full-height turnstiles, also called HEET-turnstiles (High Entrance/Exit Turnstile), like the ones to access security areas
barrier	guard_rail		49 , 2022	use this for guard rails (also called crash barriers)
barrier	kerb		135 , 2640	A (for example footway) kerb is a barrier for cyclists and wheelchair drivers. The height of the kerb is important and with this information, the usage by different groups can be determined. The height of the kerb is tagged additionally as height=*, if available. See talk-Page for more details.
barrier	spikes		141 , 4 , ?	spikes on the ground that prevent unauthorized access. Can also be removeable e.g. after payment in a garage.
barrier	jersey_barrier		39 , 35 , ?	A jersey barrier consists of heavy prefabricated blocks to create a barrier. on wikipedia. Use material=plastic and material=concrete to express the used material.

composite examples

Name	Value	Element	Comment	Rendering	Photo
barrier	post_and_chain		This is a barrier usually made of wooden (sometimes metal) posts with a chain between them. Very common in parks and college campuses in North America, placed parallel to sidewalks/footways/roads to keep people from walking across the grass and wearing a path. Posts typically are 1 meter or so tall. When placed parallel to a sidewalk/footway, map post_and_chain barriers like a fence. If placed across a sidewalk/footway, map it like a chain (or rope according to what is there) and put nodes for the posts. Tag the posts as _____. While a fence is detectable with a white cane, blind persons usually detect this barrier too late.

Combinations / Subtags

These subtags can be combined with barrier-objects to indicate the way you can pass / access control measures:

• barrier:key=yes/no/number of locks
• barrier:biometrics=yes/no/additional - for devices equipped with a biometric system to verify the identity of the person that seeks entrance
  
• barrier:rfid=yes/no/additional - for devices equipped with RFID chip readers
  
• barrier:magnetic_stripe=yes/no/additional - for devices equipped with magnetic stripe readers
  
• barrier:keypad=yes/no/additional - for devices equipped with a keypad to enter a code
  
• barrier:video=yes/no/additional - for barriers that are surveyed by video cameras
  
• barrier:personnel=yes/no/additional/remote - for places where there are humans that watch the place (if they interact via video/audio transmission use barrier:personnel=remote )

Voting

This feature is approved. Voting ended at 15.09.2011 43 votes were cast. 32 yes votes (74,4%). 14 (32,6%) people (Pieren, Bomm, Acheron, BoricC, Realadry, ExtremeCarver, Al., Species, Seoman, Fkv, Marko Knöbl, R-michael, Surly, Oligo) voted against kerbs as barriers.

• I approve this proposal. -- Dieterdreist 16:22, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Sarchittuorg 16:39, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --SimoneSVC 16:46, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Vezzo 16:47, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Hanska 16:47, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Plush 16:52, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --SpaceCafé 16:58, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --DarkFlash 19:15, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Dany111 19:24, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. I will change my vote when you will remove the 'kerb' which is not a barrier. --Pieren 17:21, 1 September 2011 (BST)

Pieren, why is it not a barrier? Kerb to me is not the most important of the suggested values, but IMHO if qualifies for the definition given in Key:barrier: 'Physical barriers to all types of "beings" such as vehicles, humans or animals.'--Dieterdreist 17:52, 1 September 2011 (BST)

I fully support tagging kerbs but not as 'barrier'. Definition of barrier is "A structure, such as a fence, built to bar passage.". A kerb doesn't bar passage to humans, animals or vehicles. I'm sorry, a kerb is not a barrier. Or not more than a bump for instance which is tagged with 'traffic_calming' key, not with 'barrier' --Pieren 09:38, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Where do you get this definition from? It can't be the definition we use in OSM because our barriers include features that are not 'built structures', see hedge or ditch for instance. See the osm key page of barrier for our definition. A kerb is indeed a barrier to many wheelchair and bicycle users. --Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

from a dictionnary. About wheelchair, a kerb may or may not be impassable but it is less a barrier than steps which is not in your list. Kerb is not a "barrier" for a bicycle, neither for a car (excepted for some Ferrari's) --Pieren 11:52, 5 September 2011 (BST)

• I approve this proposal. --Emistrac 17:38, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. I find the swing_gate term not descriptive enough, maybe an english native speaker could suggest a more specific term? -- Kaitu 17:44, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- vsandre 17:47, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Tizianos 17:51, 1 September 2011 (BST)L
• I approve this proposal. -- damjang 18:03, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Jacopogg83 18:09, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Goffredo 18:40, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Al3xius 19:01, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Sbiribizio 19:31, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Michi 20:46, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Rabenkind 22:17, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. I agree with Pieren about 'kerb'. In contrast to other barriers, a kerb is not intended to prevent access. There are many other natural or man-made objects which are difficult or impossible to cross by certain creatures or vehicles. (barrier=river or barrier=steps?) Instead of tagging a kerb separately I would add attributes to a footway or whatever. -- Bomm 21:35, 1 September 2011 (BST)

yes, you can add kerb attributes. Nobody forces you to tag kerbs and I won't probably tag them myself, but of course kerbs are built to separate the street from the pavement, and this leads to the problem that some users of the pavement have difficulties to cross the street (it is a barrier).-- Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

I do not deny that a kerb is difficult or impossible to cross for wheelchairs. IMHO the main difference between kerb and the other values is the intention or purpose. That's why I opose this specific value. -- Bomm 20:44, 6 September 2011 (BST)

• I approve this proposal. -- Alessandro Frigeri 23:32, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Andre68 22:36, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. -- Kerbstones are not barriers, but part of the sidewalk. I do notice sometimes parking barriers that are part of the sidewalk. :-S --Acheron 23:10, 1 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Morsi 06:26, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- Hike39 08:20, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. (VETO) The proposal mixes barriers that block a road, and barriers that are along a road (cable_barrier, kerb, guard_rail, jersey_barrier). This is inconsistent and the latter should be covered by another proposal. More on the discussion page... --BorisC 11:47, 2 September 2011 (BST)

So what? Some barriers are better tagged on nodes, others on ways, what's the problem? The existing barriers also are not all of the same kind. I also saw guard_rails blocking a road. All proposed values are within the scope of key:barrier --Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

I mapped a guard_rail that is a barrier because it closes a disused street trunk. Jersey idem, it's used in my city as a way to close access to a road. :) So perhaps there should be another way to tag different uses of the 'contested' features. --Sarchittuorg 19:48, 4 September 2011 (BST)

• I approve this proposal. --Zverik 09:56, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. -- null_dev
• I oppose this proposal. I agree with Bomm, kerb should be a separate tag/attribute. Also I think non-permanent (mobile) barriers like rope, log or jersey barrier should not be tagged. -- Realadry 10:27, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. The proposal mixes barriers that block a road, and barriers that are along a road - Especially Kerbs are not a barrier for me....--Extremecarver 10:53, 2 September 2011 (BST)

see above. Some are (mostly) along the road, other across. It is consistent, because this is not the criterion of the key barrier.-- Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

• I approve this proposal. just remove the kerbs, everything else is ok /al 11:08, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. all okay, except the kerbs -- Species 11:28, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. I will change my vote when you will remove the 'kerb'. It is an obstacle worth mapping but not a barrier. I also suggest changing the pictures for 'log' to an example where it really works as a barrier and for 'jersey_barrier' which is somewhat inappropriate. --Seoman 11:56, 2 September 2011 (BST)

agree for the log picture. Can you expand on the difference of "obstacle" and "barrier"?--Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

I understand a barrier in the same way as Pieren - a structure intended to bar passage, with emphasis on intention. Other structures such as kerbs or raised road markers (see diskussion page) are not intended to bar passage, thus the 'weaker' term 'obstacle' as opposed to the 'stronger' 'barrier'. 'Obstruction' instead of 'obstacle' might be even better - maybe a native English speaker could make a suggestion here? --Seoman 16:51, 5 September 2011 (BST)

Please see discussion page for more. --Seoman 11:45, 16 September 2011 (BST)

• I approve this proposal. -- Sky One 13:28, 2 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose barrier=post_and_chain (barrier=chain will suffice), barrier=cable_barrier (should be barrier=cable, because the key already implies that it's a barrier), barrier=guard_rail (better set guard_rail=left/right/both on the highway, because it belongs logically to it), barrier=kerb (too much into micro mapping; definition that left=upper side is missing in the proposal), and the subtags ("key" should be "lock"; unclear what "additional" means). I approve the other barrier=* tags. --Fkv 19:14, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I already map some guard_rails with explicit ways, because it gives more detail in some cases and you don't have to split the main road. I am not requesting that you do the same, but I also don't want to get the disadvantages of your proposed way to do it. --Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

• I oppose this proposal.: "chain" already exists, the difference between "swing_gate" and the existing "gate" is not clear; furthermore I don't like the "barrier:video" key, we should rather extend the existing surveillance=* key. Kerbs and guard rails should have tags which apply to the road where they are located and not be seperate objects. --Marko Knöbl 08:41, 3 September 2011 (BST)

Can't understand what the problem should be that someone added this value in the meantime to the features page (without voting obviously) that now you oppose for this reason. Agree for barrier:video that barrier:surveillance might be thinkable (on the other hand having audio and video as similar subkeys is not bad either). Feel free to use the guard_rail stuff somehow on the road, I don't do this but map only special guard rails which I want to map explicitly. --Dieterdreist 18:19, 3 September 2011 (BST)

A gate looks like a high double-leaf door; and a swing_gate looks like a lift_gate swinging left-right, not up-down. --Surly 17:14, 8 September 2011 (BST)

• I approve this proposal. -- FabC 15:32, 6 September 2011 (BST)
• I oppose this proposal. Will vote with "yes" if you remove "kerb", because it's not a barriere in the real sense.--R-michael 08:06, 8 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. I agree that a kerb is not a barrier, but it is not a reason to veto the entire proposal. --Surly 17:14, 8 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. except for kerbs. The primary function of a kerb is not to prevent access (even if it turns into an obstacle for wheelchairs). I would see kerbs as a feature of ways. Like Fkv, I think we should simplify: barrier=post_and_chain -> barrier=chain, barrier=cable_barrier -> barrier=cable. --Oligo 16:21, 11 September 2011 (BST)
• I approve this proposal. --Lulu-Ann 15:33, 12 September 2011 (BST) And yes, a kerb is a barrier. Only narrow-minded not yet wheelchair users think it's not.

And it is just as narrow-minded to dismiss the discussed distinction between intended and not intended with a comment like that.--Seoman 08:59, 13 September 2011 (BST)

Of course kerbs are intended. They were invented in ancient Rome to protect pedestrians from vehicle traffic, and they do so still now. --Dieterdreist 20:07, 15 September 2011 (BST)

Please see my answer on the discussion page under 'new barrier type'. --Seoman 11:45, 16 September 2011 (BST)

No, a kerb is not what common definition says about 'barrier'. Of course, it is maybe impassable for wheelchair users but that's not a good reason to qualify it as a 'barrier'. If you don't know how to swim, a river is also a barrier. If you are afraid about darkness, a forest is a barrier. If you are agoraphobic, a wide-open space is a barrier. If we go that way, everything is a barrier... And Lulu-Ann, please don't presume other opinions when you don't know the people. Your mind might be narrower than you are expecting. --Pieren 22:36, 18 September 2011 (BST)

• I oppose this proposal. I see no need for more types. Willi2006 02:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. this proposal. Will vote with "yes" if you remove "kerb", because it's not a barriere in the real sense. User 5359 06:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. A barrier is a barrier, whereever it is placed. Maybe barrier:personal=* should be made more generic as suggested at the talk page. --Fabi2 18:28, 9 September 2012 (BST)