Talk:Key:shelter

Should this tag only be used if a shelter is present?

Should this tag be used only if there is a shelter? Or will it make sense to have shelter=no in some places? The description says "This tag is in use to tell if a highway=bus_stop has a shelter or not. Values: shelter=yes." I guess we should change the description so that it says "Values: shelter=yes/no" or we remove "or not" in the first sentence: "This tag is in use to tell if a highway=bus_stop has a shelter or not ." --FredN (talk) 02:00, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Just had the same question. I personally decided to tag shelter=no to indicate that it was surveyed not to have a shelter. It's quite common in my area that bus stops have a shelter only on one side (or none at all). However I don't know how/whether any tools are parsing this. --Athalis (talk) 09:53, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

shelter=separate

Why shelter=separate was added? After all, if highway=bus_stop with shelter=yes has no amenity=shelter on its node, then it is trivial to detect nearby mapped amenity=shelter.

Why mapper is supposed to manually handled what is simple to automate by data consumers?

Is adding shelter=separate value to a clear yes/no tag based on some discussion? --Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 22:03, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

If shelter=yes is mapped, it appears as two shelters in statistics. One cannot be sure that a nearby amenity=shelter belongs to this stop. Especially when multiple stops are close to each other. Or the Belgian scenario: there is a stop at both sides of the road, but only one has a shelter because it's easy to cross the road and wait there.

What cut-off distance would you take? Every data consumer would do it differently.

I never mapped shelter=yes because it was duplicate. After I discovered shelter=separate I am not afraid any more. shelter=separate was already in use, I documented it on the wiki. --M!dgard (talk) 10:33, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

"I never mapped shelter=yes because it was duplicate" - it is not a duplicate. It is not marking a shelter, it is marking that this bus stop has a shelter

"there is a stop at both sides of the road, but only one has a shelter because it's easy to cross the road and wait there" - then one has shelter=no and one shelter=yes.

"it appears as two shelters in statistics" - only in badly madly ones. Similarly, one may incorrectly count also shelter=separate --Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:37, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

I started tagging mailing list thread (Tagging mailing list complaining about shelter=separate and asking about meaning of shelter=yes) --Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 09:17, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

After letting it rest for a while I see you're right, just documenting that yes can also mean there's a node nearby is enough. --M!dgard (talk) 16:59, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

To ""I never mapped shelter=yes because it was duplicate" - it is not a duplicate. It is not marking a shelter, it is marking that this bus stop has a shelter" – basically, you're right – but we have to be a bit careful that this perspective doesn't spread to other tags – in the sense of, I imagine it like that cycleway=track on a street is not marking a cycleway itself, it is marking that a road has a cycleway (in form of a track). With some of the double tagging that I see here and there some times, you could almost think so :D --Lukas458 (talk) 21:16, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Why would a separate shelter be mapped with shelter=yes?

What is the difference between
* separate shelter + shelter=yes
* separate shelter + shelter=separate?

I suggest only using shelter=yes if the shelter is not mapped as separate. And adjust the documentation accordingly. --Bernward1 (talk) 21:16, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

I think that shelter=yes should mere indicate presence of shelter, regardless of fact that shelter mapped on not. Reason: shelter=* is property of bus stop, mapping of shelter itself isn't charging that. Mapper always may add fixme=Do map the shelter. --Something B (talk) 13:59, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

shelter=separate indicates the presence of shelter too. Therefore, it is more accurate to use a separate shelter + shelter=separate. I wouldn't insert a fixme. There is no need to map individual objects everywhere. Even trash cans and benches are usually not mapped as separate objects.

In rare cases, it may be advantageous to map an object separately. In such cases, there is no reason not to change shelter=yes to shelter=separate. The mapping would then be unambiguous, and no one would have to decide whether to use shelter=yes or shelter=separate. -- Bernward1 (talk) 20:40, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

I think that no reason for change yes to separate because bus stop isn't changed after that: it still have the shelter. --Something B (talk) 20:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

You are right, the bus stop isn't change. But it is not good to have two possibilities for the same thing. "separate shelter + shelter=yes" and "separate shelter + shelter=separate" both have the same meaning. Why do you want to be able to map one thing in two ways? I don't understand that. -- Bernward1 (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

That is exactly my point: just use yes. --Something B (talk) 22:13, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

I don't understand your conclusion. (just use yes). separate is 3343 time used. You didn't answer what's good about having two options for the same thing. --Bernward1 (talk) 07:19, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

shelter=yes and shelter=separate is the same, shelter=separate isn't necessary, just use shelter=yes if feature has a shelter, or shelter=no otherwise, whether shelter is mapped separately isn't relevant. --Something B (talk) 08:42, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

I can't agree with you. According to Taginfo, shelter=separate is used 3343 times. A tag that is used so frequently cannot be irrelevant. -- Bernward1 (talk)

Of course, shelter=separate is used, so should be mentioned, but no consensus about it. Summary: data consumers should accept yes and separate as synonyms, mappers can use either. OK? --Something B (talk) 09:35, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

As a property "can provide shelter"?

Currently, the description says the tag implies there is somewhere nearby an amenity=shelter, but wouldn't it be more logical to use the tag to say "it can provide shelter"? Maybe this tag is already in use with this intention? --Dieterdreist (talk) 10:03, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

I don't understand your post. What do you mean by “can provide shelter”? Every shelter provides some kind of protection. “separate” is a clearly defined term and has nothing to do with protection. --Bernward1 (talk) 07:39, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

This is a property, I think we agree. The feature itself "can provide shelter" or "provides shelter" is different from "there is another object nearby which provides shelter". The current definition is: The shelter=* tag is used to indicate the presence of an amenity=shelter associated with a feature, most commonly a public_transport=platform or highway=bus_stop. so it says it implies the presence of another main feature. In my view, the better definition would be The shelter=* tag is used to indicate whether a feature provides shelter, most commonly a public_transport=platform or highway=bus_stop. I have looked into the history and it seems it was changed relatively recently, 2 years ago, here: [[1]] with the comment "major rework" but no sources or referrers given. @Lumikeiju: --Dieterdreist (talk) 08:37, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

A bus stop itself can provide shelter only via an associated public transport shelter, which may or may not be mapped separately. That's what this tag represents. Whether or not a given feature itself provides shelter is inherent to the type of object; there is no additional meaning conveyed by shelter=yes on an amenity=shelter. Lumikeiju (talk) 16:22, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

ich wechsel mal ins deutsche, weil ich deine Feinheiten im englischen Text nicht verstehe. (Ich weiß nicht ob wir dazu auf die deutsche Diskussionsseite wechseln sollten). Ich übersetze mal deinen ersten Satz: Die Eigenschaft selbst, dass ein Objekt „Schutz bietet“, unterscheidet sich von der Tatsache, dass „sich in der Nähe ein anderes Objekt befindet, das Schutz bietet“. Grammatikalisch stimme ich dir zu. Aber inhaltlich ist doch klar das letzteres gemeint. (Keiner kommt auf die Idee da das Haltestellschild selbst Schutz vor Sonne und Regen bietet) Daher finde ich die Beschreibung so wie sie ist klar. Deine Formulierung finde ich dagegen eher verwirrend. (Vielleicht habe ich noch nicht verstanden, was du wirklich ändern willst.) -- Bernward1 (talk) 16:01, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

The way I see it, the tag highway=bus_stop is the bus stop, not just the bus stop sign. Maybe this is where the confusion stems from? —Dieterdreist (talk) 20:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

Whether a highway=bus_stop node represents just the sign at a bus stop or the entire bus stop conceptually including all associated features, the meaning of shelter=separate is the same: a shelter is present and it is mapped separately as an amenity=shelter element. --Lumikeiju (talk) 19:16, 19 June 2026 (UTC)