Talk:Tag:landform=dune system

Description does not seem to match current use in database

The areas you have tagged do not appear to be dune systems, since they match leisure=nature_reserve boundaries exactly. --Jeisenbe (talk) 08:08, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

A 'leisure' is not a 'nature reserve' either ... all those dune systems i have mapped, ARE dune systems, and some of those are protected, but there are many 'natuurgebieden' in my country, which i would map, if i know the 'right' tagging. I asked on the forum, but nobody want to answer, because it is something 'complicating' i guess , because there is a difference between a natuurgebied - natuurreservaat - natuurpark - etc. ... --Henke54 (talk) 08:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

You might look at boundary=protected_area which provides more option than leisure=nature_reserve.

A nature reserve IS a protected area according that tag and wikipedia, but a natuurgebied (translated; natuur=nature and gebied=area) is 'all encompassing',protected AND not protected(at least in Belgium), that is why i asked at forum, if there is an 'all encompassing' word for 'natuurgebied' in English --Henke54 (talk) 11:26, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

It seems that in Singapore, there is also 'all encompassing' Nature areas of which are also Nature reserves ... so, why not make a Nature_area tag/key also ? Nature areas are parks/reserves/etc ...protected AND not protected ... --Henke54 (talk) 12:33, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't think the "Nature areas" in Singapore are the same as a "natuurgebied" in the Netherlands (or Flanders?). There is a table for Flanders which shows how the protect_class=* tag is used in Belgium for boundary=protected_area but I don't see anything about the Netherlands. Based on an automated translation of the Wikipedia page, I think "natuurgebied" are probably a "natural landscape" area, like protect_class=5 : "Protected Landscape/ Seascape: ... area where the interaction of people and nature over time has produced an area of distinct character with significant, ecological, biological, cultural and scenic value: landscape protection" - this is based off of IUCN category 5. But if you can't find out the IUCN category of the areas, perhaps discussing with the local mapper community in Belgium is the best way to find out how other people are already mapping these "natuurgebied". --Jeisenbe (talk) 13:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

What I mean is that a "landform", like a dune or a ridge or a hill, is never the exact same shape as a protected area boundary, with square edges. Usually areas of sand do not precisely match protected area boundaries, so they should be mapped as a separate feature. See One_feature,_one_OSM_element. --Jeisenbe (talk) 10:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

A dune system is (usually) more than 'a' dune or 'a' ridge ... --Henke54 (talk) 11:26, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Documenting current use of this tag

I wanted to add this text to the page: Note: dunes are usually mapped with natural=dune, which has been used in over 100 different locations. This tag landform=dune_system, as of May 2020, has been mostly used by 1 mapper in southeastern Algeria, and by 1 other mapper in coastal Belgium. (See http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/TxM). Why was it removed? It is factually correct, as can be seen from the overpass query results. --Jeisenbe (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Why do you persist on using natural=dune, it should be deprecated, because a dune is not always natural, and an area with dune(s) IS a DUNE SYSTEM! Also, there is mention of 'Mapping caveats' with natural=dune, which are 'solved' with Tag:landform=dune_system. A dune system is the whole area with dunes and between the dunes.--Henke54 (talk) 09:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

If you wish to deprecate the tag natural=dune, please follow the Proposal process and discuss your new tag landform=dune_system with the wider OpenStreetMap community first. I would suggest starting with a post on the Tagging mailing list. This wiki is supposed to represent "de facto" usage and community consensus. --Jeisenbe (talk) 15:58, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

"it should be deprecated, because a dune is not always natural" that is not how OSM tagging works. See Counterintuitive key names. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Please stop removing information that this barely used tag is barely used. It is not only OK but it is desirable to note this as otherwise this page would be misleading. This is not a standard tagging (at least for now) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• YOU and Jeisenbe STOP undoing my info, and STOP pushing your 'interpretations' ... FACT IS (as i stated here before ) ; natural=dune is LESS used than landform=dune_system ... --Henke54 (talk) 08:02, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
  • "natural=dune is LESS used than landform=dune_system" - using which metrics? Is any part of Jeisenbe claim incorrect? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 15:02, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
  • LOOK at the taginfo of both (natural=dune and what landform=dune_system)!!!--Henke54 (talk) 16:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Are you aware that almost all use of landform=dune_system is in one area, with area segmented what inflates taginfo usage count? See http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/TOb ? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 16:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
• Is any part of Jeisenbe claim that you removed (usage at extremely small number locations, usage almost entirely by two mappers) incorrect? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 16:34, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Jeisenbe claim here is incorrect, when he claimed that(and removed my info), yet, i did not undo his removing of my info there... This Tag:landform=dune_system, which is correct, i am not going to let interfere by you or jeisenbe ... --Henke54 (talk) 17:30, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
    • So which ones of "usage of landform=dune_system is at extremely small number of locations" and "usage almost entirely by two mappers" you consider as incorrect? Which claims at the linked page you consider as untrue? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 17:42, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
      • @Henke54: - can you answer that question? Which ones of "usage of landform=dune_system is at extremely small number of locations" and "usage almost entirely by two mappers" you consider as incorrect? If you had reasons for removal of what seems valid content to me, please share them. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 19:28, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
    • I can also ask you a question ; what is there 'misleading' on my info (which you removed) here , and here (which is removed by jeisenbe)?? An area of dunes is a dune system, a landform .--Henke54 (talk) 18:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
      • reason for this: natural=dune, natural=water, natural=tree, natural=beach, natural=sand, natural=scrub, natural=tree_row, natural=heath, natural=bare_rock, natural=mud and other values of natural key are used both for naturally occurring objects and ones where humans had significant part - planted tree is still tagged as natural=tree, man made beach is still tagged as natural=beach, man made dune is still tagged as natural=dune. Suggesting that it should start doing it for dune is not commonly accepted idea, so I removed suggestion that using natural=dune for man made dunes is incorrect. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 18:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
        • For a less signficiant note, allow me to chime in here by suggesting that theoretically it is possible to use both natural=* and man_made=* to show an object's "artificial" origin if anyone wants to. For example, an artifically-created beach, there's a dozen instances of man_made=beach being added to natural=beach, which I have recently thought about tagging in my place. (For the record, I should like a landform=*, but there's no need to deprecate natural=* - they can co-exist) -- Kovposch (talk) 22:47, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
      • this "An area of dunes is best mapped as landform=dune_system." is interesting idea, but AFAIK not shared by most mappers. Feel free to discuss at tagging mailing list or make use of other communication channels to disuss it, but I am pretty sure that mappers generally prefer natural=dune. You can also make use of Proposal process Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 18:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Henke54 - please do not remove the factual information which I have added to this page, as we have previously discussed. You are free to use this tag and to document how it is currently being used. You cannot prevent others from adding accurate information, however. If you wish to encourage people to stop using natural=dune please see the Proposal process and discuss it with other mappers. --Jeisenbe (talk) 06:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

And mentioning limited tag use is not an attack, I did the same with Tag:dual_carriageway=yes where I am the primary mapper Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)