Talk:Bicycle

Impressive work on the new tables, Pieren! There's been a lot of discussion lately in the Danish group regarding how to tag the many different combinations of roads and cyclepaths. A universally acceptable and fitting standard is very much needed! My only big concern is that in all the places you used highway=track, I would use highway=cycleway, because the way is primarily for bikes. Optionally such way can be tagged foot=yes if pedestrians are also allowed. Good work! --Jesper Cheetah 02:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, so sorry about that, it was my mistake. It's obviously a highway=cycleway. Fixed now. --Pieren 14:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Contents 1 new examples 1.1 L2 2 oneway:bicycle 3 New key order:?=* 4 Case M3b 5 Tagging L1b 6 recommended usage

new examples

L2

In the situation described in picture L2, does some country forbid cyclists from driving in the car lane in the direction without the cycle lane? If not, then oneway:bicycle=yes is wrong, even if the cycle lane itself is oneway. Alv 14:34, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

That's correct, the bikes can drive on the opposite way but with the normal road. I remove the oneway restriction in L2. -- Pieren 14:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

oneway:bicycle

Good work on the new tables! One thing comes to mind though, in L2 you have "Oneway cycle lane on right side of the road only. Way A : highway=residential[1] + cycleway:right=lane + oneway:bicycle=yes ". But a bicycle can go in either direction (down the road or up on a choice of road or lane), so I'm not sure that oneway:bicycle=yes is the right tag? Gravitystorm 22:06, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Fixed, see above. --Pieren 14:19, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I think we have to go for a more complex scheme.

I would put:

• L1a: highway=* & cycleway=lane
• L1b: highway=* & cycleway:left=lane
• L1c: highway=* & cycleway:left=onewaylane--Extremecarver 12:05, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

-- Why don't we use bicycle=opposite? There is a proposal coming that will try to solve the problems regarding left/right, oneway restrictions, different lane issues and even the track/lane or different usages of the way. See for now Advanced Tagging scheme

Because it is less clear. Ideal is to have seperate keys. bicycle=opposite alone does not tell anything about the kind of restriction. It is good for cycleways on the opposite side of the street, but does not tell anything about which direction it may be used. It could be for both directions, or only for one. Just because you have bicycle=opposite, would not mean you are allowed to ride against the direction of traffic flow. It could simply mean the cycleway is on the left hand of the street, for right hand driving countries.... --Extremecarver 17:17, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

New key order:?=*

I think we need a new key to describe the order of ways from left to right (or middle to outside). with the middle defaulting to highway=*. Using order:-1=*; order:-2=*; order:-3=*;... to classify the order to the left and order:1=*; order:2=*; order:3=*;... to classifiy the order to the right. I prefer this more complex scheme because of machine readability over using ";" (e.g order=footway;cycleway;carparking;highway;carparking;cycleway;footway) As an example tagging I would propose:

• Example T1:
• highway=*
• cycleway=track
• segregated=yes
• pavement=yes
• (key for cars parked alongside the road with specification if the cars are simply parked alongside, or if the cars are parked at an angle alongside (~45°), or 90° to the traffic direction - dunno if someone has been working on this already)
• order:-3=pavement oder:-2=cycleway order:-1=carparking order:1=carparking & order:2=cycleway & order:3=pavement.--Extremecarver 12:36, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

For parking alongside the road, someone wrote a Proposed_features/parking_lane, and the little discussion resulted in some using parking:both=inline/diagonal/orthogonal; or parking:left=* / parking:right=*, where needed.

I personally think that at that point, when one is adding roadside parkings and possible green patches, it becomes more sensible to just draw the cycleways and sidewalks as separate ways; only things that are between the curb stones are left as tags on the way with the main highway tag. Alv 14:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Even though it will be easier to map. I as a cyclist really want to avoid using any cycleway that goes between parked cars and the sidewalk. According to studies your danger to get involved in an accident on such ways is 4 times higher than when riding on a normal road, if it is against the traffic flow on the side even 12x higher. Cardrivers tend to not notice things besides the street. Therefore having it tagged alltogether is the only solution to have autorouting avoid such ways that are real crap if you cycle a bit faster than average. The only other solution would be to replace highway=cycleway with somehting like highway=cycletrack so I know to avoid this way. The only other possibility is to resort to keys like "cyclability" or using keys like bicycle:trafficflow bicycle:dangerous -- the problem is that those keys will likely not get accepted soon. Currently we simply have no tags to allow an autorouting software to get decent routing for commuters on bicycle (meaning a possibility to avoid very crowded roads but also avoid residential roads or cycleway=track or any other ways were you often have to stop or pedestrians getting in your way. Favorising cycleway=lane is not a real solution, because they are usually built alongside big roads which one would like to avoid if there are faster possibilities to reach the destination).--Extremecarver 15:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Case M3b

The case M3b seem strange for me !

This :

highway=* + oneway=yes + cycleway:right=lane + oneway:bicycle=no

mean for me that the cycleway is in the opposite direction that it's in real ?
Shouldn't not be like this :

highway=* + oneway=yes + cycleway:right=opposite_lane + oneway:bicycle=no

CU and thanks in advance Sarge 18:31, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Tagging L1b

Why is L1b not tagged as highway=* + cycleway:right=lane;opposite_lane? --Sanderd17 09:48, 6 September 2010 (BST)

Because 'opposite' and 'opposite_lane' are only refering to the oneway traffic in the main highway (cars) which is not the case in L1b. --Pieren 16:34, 6 September 2010 (BST)

recommended usage

It is totally unclear who recommends what on this page! I.e. for L1a "cycleway=lane" is recommended while for M1 "cycleway:left=lane + cycleway:right=lane" is recommended. I also know no one who recommends the usage of cycleway=opposite_* after thinking about mixing driving directions with way types. --phobie m d 15:05, 15 September 2011 (BST)