Talk:OpenStreetMap Carto

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Talk:Standard tile layer - Other languages

Drinking Water

drinking-water is twice (Substances and Outdoor)

I couldn't decide which one to use, sorry. :D --Wuzzy (talk) 16:11, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Translation

I don't think this page is ready for translation yet, so please don't translate it (yet). The main problem is that of redundancy. Each time this page gets extended, all translations are outdated. There are some templates around this wiki which could help with making this task easier, but I don't know which templates to use. Can anyone help here? --Wuzzy (talk) 16:09, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Linking to an entry

With a script, I made a modified copy of this page here.
It enables to easily make links like this (to miniature golf) directly to a rendering entry.
See explanation under title "Key" and in comment inside.
Tell me if you're interested and I'll say more. --Papou (talk) 20:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Stadium Symbology

This page shows the stadium symbology should be green, but it is rendered as a tan. Looking at the stylesheet, it looks like it is symbolized the same as societal_amenities: #f0f0d8. : Example

--User:JTiptonGIS 14:33, 15 August 2016‎

This object is also tagged as a building, but indirectly. It's a member of this relation https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1753241 with the building tag. So the tan colour comes from that. -- Harry Wood (talk) 15:02, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

It's the area between the building and the field that is tan. Here is an example that hasn't had the buildings drawn in yet. Just a stadium and field.

< map lat="35.08032" lon="-92.45965" z="16" w="200" h="200" />
Societal Amentities Style Stadium Style @stadium: @societal_amenities; // also sports_centre
Societal Amentities Style@societal_amenities: #f0f0d8;
--JTiptonGIS (talk) 16:04, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Ah yes the light yellow colour. Indeed that is not the green colour this wiki page says. -- Harry Wood (talk) 23:52, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Name

Looks like canonical name is not that obvious, yet "OpenStreetMap Carto" is used in a prominent place:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto#openstreetmap-carto

--Kocio (talk) 12:38, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

It is displayed since ever as "Standard" on the OpenStreetMap.org website within the list of "Map layers". So an accurate name (for the use on OSM.org site from which this page is a documentation inteded for for users) would be "Standard map layer". But "openstreetmap-carto" (without any capitals!) is the internal technical name used by developers in their development project (note that developement has moved several times its repository, with several names: you're looking at the project name used on the last open source repository used. Since ever this was the "Standard" (for OSM.org), and in various links, it is better known as "Mapnik for OSM.org"...
May be in some future the "Standard" for OSM will reference another renderer, and could even start using WebGL with smooth vectorial 2D/3D (so Mapnik will no longer be used) but there will still remain a "standard" one (for OSM.org), and the legacy Mapnik may be abandonned or renamed into another repository for a new developement branch named technically, such as "osm-mapnik-color".
If a new rendering is made, it will keep the visual identity, will reuse most colors, styles, icon sets and it will still be the "standard" map layer even if it's no longer "openstreetmap-carto". As far as I know the name "openstreetmap-carto" was never advertized, it is just an identifier for a development branch on a specific repository (GitHub) where there's now warranty it will remain maintained there forever.
The way I understand it, the repositry is only the name of the stylesheet used with CartoCSS, but the page is not about the stylesheet alone but the whole "Standard tile layer service" that delivers the resulting style rendered with (Mapnik + CartoCSS + this stylesheet) and then used on the OSM.org website where it is used as the "Standard map layer".
Even the GitHug project page (showing its README) speaks about the "Standard map layer". "OpenStreetMap Carto" is just an artefact for the smallest part of the project (but the most precious one in term of graphic design and which may be rewritten at any time using other tools: if we go to vectorial, the style will be readapted, Mapnik will no longer be used, CartoCSS will not work as is, and the stylesheet will certainly need more refinements that won't be compatible with Mapnik+CartoCSS, but there will still be a "Standard map layer" in OSM.org website, and a "Standard tile server" also for OSM.org, even if it also supports also a "Black and white" variant, built from the same stylesheet project!). — Verdy_p (talk) 13:01, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
  • tl;dr, but "it is better known as "Mapnik for OSM.org"" is clearly wrong. I never have seen it described it this way (incorrect Mapnik is fairly popular but I see "Mapnik for OSM.org" for the first time). Googling for "Mapnik for OSM.org" using either DuckDuckGo or Google gives exactly 0 results. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:20, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Misnaming the standard style as Mapnik has a long history and is particularly common in tag documentation on this wiki. Historically there have been two styles - the Osmarender map was replaced by the predecessor of OSM-Carto implemented in Mapnik XML and since use of Mapnik was a defining element of this style people started referring to it as Mapnik.
The Difference between what is shown on osm.org as the standard tile layer and what happens to be the the style implementation currently behind this tile layer is important. This should be clearly explained on this page no matter what the title is. OSM-Carto is an independent project not run or controlled by the OSMF. The choice what style is actually rendered on the OSMF tile servers is ultimately that of the OSMF (and the OWG) - even if this choice has probably never been evaluated since it was originally made when moving to OSM-Carto from the XML style sheets and there are no codified rules as to what are the criteria for making this selection. --Imagico (talk) 13:48, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
There's a reason that I added this section to the page: Standard tile layer#Mapnik and CartoCSS, and it's because I was specifically warned in another location NOT to call openstreetmap-carto/standard-tile-layer "Mapnik". I'll freely acknowledge that and in various links, it is better known as "Mapnik for OSM.org", but my take is that such links should be changed as appropriate, so that if the css template is being referenced, they point to osm-carto (here), and if to the overall vector mapping engine, those point to mapnik. In fact, a comment below, amusingly, references osm-carto #2927, which came from the precise warning I received about confusing the two. So there you go. Skybunny (talk) 14:07, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
  • See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2927 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:17, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
    • No need to "repeat exactly the same link" to GitHub project. I had read it (see above) and it really says inside that this is "Standard map layer".
      The development project identifier on GitHub have changed several times (and there will be new branches, and a switch can occur at any time, the current style will be kept in its branch but yes there will be a "Standard map layer", which is exactly what this page describes: and the UI used on the OSM.org website, but not really how this layer is produced (which is irrelevant here and should be documented elsewhere). — Verdy_p (talk) 14:52, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. See, my argument would be that calling anything in a UI "Standard" is bad UI practice, and the name should be changed, period. "Standards" change. If osm-carto is traded out for another project/branch/stylesheet, is your contention that it will cease to exist or cease to have relevance? I think it just as likely that it will become another dropdown in a long list of dropdown choices. In fact, each item in the osm.org dropdown list should probably have its own wiki page describing what it is and where it can be edited/have issues reported/etc. If you're saying 'As long as the label 'Standard tile layer' exists on osm.org, this page should be a placeholder that points to the stylesheet that creates it', sure, I'll accept that, and we can just move most of the content on this page to that new spot as soon as we agree what osm-carto is called (see #2927, above). But I'm already pushing to have the name on the website itself changed as soon as the name it should be is agreed upon. Skybunny (talk) 15:12, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Replied there. I guess that's only fair since I "started" it. Skybunny (talk) 14:26, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

I went ahead and retitled this article as "OpenStreetMap Carto", following the name in the readme. These days, most in the OSM community refer to the stylesheet and tile layer as "OpenStreetMap Carto" or "Carto" rather than "Standard", even if that's what the Rails port UI says. This article only talks about OSM Carto, not the old Mapnik style was also called "Standard" in the layer switcher during 2012, before the new CartoCSS-based tiles were deployed. On the other hand, it does refer to other deployments of the stylesheet that are not called "Standard". There are other technicalities, such as consistency with Category:OSM Carto. At some point, Standard tile layer should be expanded to discuss the evolution of this default rather than merely redirecting to this article. – Minh Nguyễn 💬 00:45, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Lack of country-specific symbols as an intentional design decesion

Standard_tile_layer#Design includes an list of examples of design decisions that serve to make carto a general purpose map of the world. One of these examples is how "there are no country specific symbols (like for example road shields or subway/metro signs), they all have a uniform look."

However, issue #508 suggests that this was not an intentional decision, but a result of issue #596 having never been resolved.

--Colgza (talk) 16:16, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Move tabs to subpages

SymbolsTab, LinesTab and AreasTab should all certainly at least have "OSM Carto" in the page name.

How about making them subpages of this page? That is moving:

--Push-f (talk) 12:08, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Done. --Push-f (talk) 10:29, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
@Push-f: Not yet, could you care for corresponding DE and IT symbol, lines and area language pages. Thanks --MalgiK (talk) 13:21, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Done. --Push-f (talk) 13:48, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
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