Talk:Aeroways

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Discussions from key:aeroway

I have moved the historical discussions about aeroway features from talk:key:aeroway to retain all the conversations in one place. PeterIto 07:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

RC Runway

I entered a runway for a radio-controlled airplane club. Mapnik and Cycle Map look okay, at close zoom levels, but look short and stubby further out. However, it is too stubby at any zoom level in Osmarender. There are another two of them that I know of in the Ogden, Utah (USA) area that I haven't yet input. Could there be some value created for RC runways and taxiways? This way if they are rendered, they will at least look better. — Val42 05:52, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I have seen runways rendered as areas instead of ways. That would seem to allow one to control the width. I don't know enough about RC runways to know if they are properly included with this tag, however. --Liber 19:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I have taken up these rules for fields for r/c flying:

  • map runway just like any othe runway, either a way or an area
  • map the field as "sport=model_aerodrome,aerodrome=model"

User:Jan_olieslagers

Prevalence of "aeroway" as an english term

Presently, neither Wikipedia nor Wiktionary contain a record for the term 'aeroway'. Nor does Onelook.com contain a record; this resource x-refs >1000 English dictionaries. Therefore, I would suggest that this is not an appropriate term to use for the concept in the English Key-space. I don't suggest an alternative right now, as I've not given it sufficient thought. --Ceyockey 16:59, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Aeroway does fit nicely with highway, railway, cycleway, and aerialway. Airway is not a good idea as that term already has a specific aviation meaning. -- Tinshack 17:41, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Airport Traffic

Some aerodromes do not permit some types of traffic (Bourne does not normally accept helicopters, Gransden operates only gliders), and sites where skydiving routinely takes place are usually identified on aviation charts. I think these should be tagged as rotorcraft=prohibited etc. using the tags aeroplane, rotorcraft, glider, balloon, parachute, hanglider, microlight with values designated (main or only use of aerodrome), permitted, prohibited --Bskingle 11:40, 14 April 2008

That should probably follow the conventions for defining exceptions to the rule established by an access=* tag. Specifically, instead of "permitted" or "prohibited" it would be "yes" or "no". So an airfield that only allows gliders would probably be aircraft=no, glider=yes (but not access=no, because that would mean land- and sea-based access is prohibited too). On the other hand, an airfield that generally allows all types of aircraft but with one notable prohibition (such as, no balloons) would simply be balloon=no. Vid the Kid 07:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge

It has been proposed that this page be merged into key:aeroway. Is that something that we should do? PeterIto 16:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Personally I would suggest that is is moved to 'Aeroway' and become an summary article for all flight related tagging, in the same way we have one for Aerialway, Buses and Railways. Some of these articles are new and un-developed, but the idea is that there is a 'main' article for each identified public transport mode. Possibly aeroway is not the right name either, but I suggest it should be a summary article and not relate to a single key or only to airports. PeterIto 16:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, added the cleanup tag. Aeroway should follow a similar style to Railway in my opinion, possibly with a similar link to Airport drawing parallels to Railway stations? Martin Renvoize 12:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I have done a lot of cleanup on the article now. Should we do the move to aeroway? any objections? PeterIto 10:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
I have now completed the merge with aeroways. Airports is now a redirect to aeroways. PeterIto 06:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Aerodromes as nodes, relations and boundaries

I have been spending some time looking at how airports are coded in OSM, have been cleaning the relevant wiki articles to make the options and current practice clearer. I do also however have a few particular suggestions about how we could make it work better:

  1. I suggest we recommend the use of a node for the main airport feature (using aeroway=aerodrome) because this allows people to position the node in the most appropriate location within the facility, which may not be in the middle which is where it ends up if an area is used. I would suggest that the node should normally be positioned close to the main terminal which is where it is of most use to passengers when trying to access the airport. I note that a number of major airports have aeroway=aerodrome nodes as well as aeroway=aerodrome boundaries which seems to imply that others also feel a need to use a node for the airport data.
  2. It seems appropriate to combine all the elements associated with an airport into a relation:site. I have created a site relation for Oxford Airport and rather boldly also for San Francisco International airport. I have used 'roles' of runway/ taxiway/ terminal/ aerodrome/ boundary/ hangar/ access/ gate etc. For complex airports with multiple terminals it may be appropriate to create a 'site' relation for each terminal and then combine these terminal sites into a larger site for the whole airport.
  3. There are potentially at least two different boundaries (airside, and all facilities including any associated far-flung parking, train stations etc). I have experimented with using aeroway=boundary for simple boundaries and more complex boundaries should probably be formed using relation:multipolygon. I would suggest that these boundaries are tagged with aeroway=boundary, and optionally also with a 'boundary=airside' or whatever and are included within the main airport relation with a role of 'boundary'.

Any thoughts?

-- PeterIto 22:42, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

aeroway=aerodrome as an area already seems fairly common according to [stats]. See the aerodrome (area) proposed feature. I haven't come across any separation of air-side and land-side in OSM, but Joe Public can generally consider public roads and terminal buildings as land-side, and everything else as air-side (and out of bounds). -- Tinshack 20:13, 25 July 2013.

Balloons "airports"?

Is there any tag for a balloon landing area? something like aeroway=balloonspad ? unsigned User:Xan.

Not seen anything like that in OSM yet, but you are free to get creative on this. Do however check out taginfo for aeroway to see if anyone is using something already. Actually... there is one 'aeroway=balloonpad' there (not balloonspad btw). There are also a few 'paraglider_takeoff_spot', 'paragliding_landing_site' and a 'launch pad' whatever that is for, possibly for space rockets? Looks as though it would be good to add some of this to the key table for aeroway in due course. PeterIto
Also 'leisure=balloon_launch'.[1] PeterIto 21:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I use aeroway=balloon_launch, because I really think it's aeroway tag not leisure tag. But thanks, this serves me as inspiration. See that

Tagging

Hangars

It seems like it might be useful to have a tag for hangars, as well as terminals.--Liber 19:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

See aeroway=hangar and aeroway=terminal. Good to also tag these with building=yes.-- Tinshack 09:45, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Detail tagging

Since airport diagrams indicate a runway's width, I've been tagging it using width=*. It would be nice if the renderer would honor this, though.

Also, since ele=* is supposed to be GPS-accurate elevation, while airplanes and airports use measurements designed around barometric pressure, I've been tagging the nodes at each end of a runway with aeroway:ele=*. I also tag the field elevation with aeroway:field_ele=*.

BigPeteB 20:13, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

ele=* does the job just fine (most airport elevations are WGS84 anyway) - so it's probably not necessary to tag aeroway:ele=* separately. Remember to include units (648 ft or 197.51 m) -- Tinshack 09:45, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Drop-off/Pick-up zone

Big airports have multiple areas for drop-off and pick-up, which may depend on which set of gates you're going to or which airline you're using. This would be convenient to tag since you could tell your navigation device to go to "Terminal C" or "South Terminal". But how do we represent this? aeroway=gate doesn't really fit, since that's for the airplanes, not the passengers. BigPeteB 06:04, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

landing lights

I am searching for tags to all the items for navigational symbols, and for some reason, airport landing lights are listed as a rendering symbol for marine nautical maps. I have not been able to find any suitable tagging for this. Anybody who can suggest anything for me? See here for details. --Skippern 23:28, 13 September 2010 (BST)

Taxiway &Runway markings

  • Using the tag aeroway=holding_position for the holding position markings at Chicago O'Hare. --Nickvet419 Flag of United States 10:29, 6 October 2010 (BST)
  • I've added ref=* for the holding position names at Redhill Aerodrome (e.g. ref=A1) - hopefully this is a sensible suggestion for extra info on holds? --Jmbatchelor (talk) 08:39, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Water runway

I have used aeroway=water_runway. Rendering could be dotted black outline. Example near SVG/ENZV:

What about aeroway=runway; surface=water? -- Tinshack 04:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

--Gorm 13:51, 20 October 2010 (BST)

Obstruction Lights

Surrounding the airport are often towers containing obstruction lights. Any suggestions on how to tag these? Brianegge (talk) 00:49, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Navigation Aids/Radio Beacons

There are two parallel schemes in use for these features, aeroway=navigationaid and airmark=beacon, compared at Talk:Tag:aeroway=navigationaid. If anyone has a preference one way or another, please comment there. Also noted there are multiple ways that PAPI lights are being tagged. Neuhausr (talk) 21:42, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Airline Lounges

Shops, restaurants and similar amenities are easy to tag in the usual way when tagging an airport terminal, but what about airline lounges? I couldn't find anything on the wiki and I also couldn't find an appropriate tag in OSMAnd. --Fmarier (talk) 23:42, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Airport buildings

Under open issues, there are some questions regarding airport-associated buildings. For the moment, I would suggest tagging these as 'building=yes' 'aerodrome=whatever' or even just 'building=whatever'. Where whatever could be replaced by hangar or terminal. unsigned

The accepted tag for the building=* tag is that it takes a yes/no value. In this case, building=yes and aerodrome=whatever. This way, regardless of the type of building, it will always be rendered as something. --Milliams 12:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Although this has been discussed elsewhere (and some proposals were rejected), I'd like to discuss several items on this page. Buildings are one of them: I believe it is valuable to some map users to see where is tower, ARO, and maybe meteo office (hangars would be nice, but not esential) DarkoS 12:25, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Bits of runway

How about adding:

  • 'aeroway = displaced_threshold' (a bit of runway that you can roll around on but not hit from the air)
  • 'aeroway = stopway' (bit of runway you don't use except in emergency)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runway#.22Sections.22_of_a_runway

Yes, its nice. In addition I'd like to note surface type (paved=concrete, grass, dust...), thresholds and designations ("05", "23"). Surface type is the most prominent aerodrome attribute that is shown on VFR maps, together with tower frequency. DarkoS 12:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Sections of a runway

Would it make more sense to tag as follows?

Displaced threshold

Runway diagram, Displaced threshold.png

aeroway=runway
runway=displaced_threshold
Blast pad

Runway diagram, Blast pad.png

aeroway=runway
runway=blast_pad
Stopway
aeroway=runway
runway=stopway

This might be eventually supported by renderers to display the displaced threshold arrows and the blast pad chevrons, but would be backward compatible with the aeroway=runway tag. --AtonX (talk) 16:43, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Missing features

I am missing following features and would like to add them to the rendered items:

Type Value Description
Way aeroway=taxipath The Painting on apron/taxiway where planes are to drive over. Each taxipath has an individual Code.
Node Area aeroway=parking_position Area / Position where a plane is standing to board and unboard. Each position has an individual Number and can be different from the aeroway=gate it is serving. It may not even be directly associated to an aeroway=gate as they can be far from the terminal and passengers to there with buses.
Way aeroway=jet_bridge The jet_bridge for passengers to board a plane without stepping outside or riding to it in a bus.
Way aeroway=aeroservice ServiceWays (Paintings on the apron) only where service-vehicles are allowed to drive from terminal to the parking-positions.

taxilane

There is a important difference between taxiway and taxilane, but there is no tag for taxilane. It's like tagging every road as motorway. taxiways should we outside the parking area.

-- kelvan (talk) 16:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Airport Classification

Small airstrips?

A few points of relevance here, these facts relate to the UK, I'm uncertain off hand about the situation in other countries: The term "Airport" has specific meaning in law, that there are customs facilities and international flights may arrive and depart there. This does not have anything to do with the physical size of the areodrome, Cambridge is an Airport for example. The term Aerodrome is the most generic term for an aircraft landing site, including a place where seaplanes land. Airfield means an aerodrome on land, all training flights and most commercial services must take place from a licensed aerodrome, and international flights must land first at an Airport, before possibly completing their flight to another areodrome. There are also studies such as GASAR (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_aviation_in_the_United_Kingdom#GASAR_aerodrome_classification) which provide classification which may be of use here. In the UK at least, many military airfields are available for public use and almost all will provide air traffic services for civilian flights.

Proposed Tagging Scheme

In view of the need for a scheme which is easily used from a survey, while wishing to avoid anomolies by comparison to official classifications, I propose the following, which should be rendered with decreasing prominance:

  • aerodrome=* - An area feature defining the perimeter of any location where aircraft take off and land.
  • aerodrome=airport -Any aerodrome where customs facilities exist and/or where international flights arrive and depart. In the UK I think these would always be civillian, but in the event that a military airfield is also an airport (like Stuttgart perhaps?) then it should also be tagged military=airfield.
  • aerodrome=commercial - An aerodrome which is not an Airport but where commercial scheduled flights operate, such as Penzance.
  • aerodrome=public - An aerodrome which is open to the public for GA flights but which does not normally operare air transport flights, such as Duxford.
  • military=airfield - A military aerodrome, I would prefer military=aerodrome, but since I suspect that there are few military aerodromes on water and there are probably a lot of tags already out there the distinction is probably not worth worrying about. In the case where a military airfield is open for public use (such as Fairford) it should also be tagged aerodrome=* and in cases where there are separate areas for civillian and military use (Athens?) separate perimiters could be mapped, presumably joined by a relation?
  • aerodrome=private - Private landing sites such as farm strips. Even in the case of a single helipad I suggest that an aerodrome should be identified, there always needs to be open space in which to make an approach, and there is almost always a separate parking area. In the cases where there really is nothing other than the landing pad (such as a roof top helipad) the aerodrome way could indicate that part of the building roof where helicopters can land, which may not be the entire roof area.

-- unsigned

I Agree. We Definitely Need The Ability To Differentiate been Major Airports, Minor Airports, and Tiny Airfields.
In the area around Burlington, VT, where I do most of my mapping, there are numerous very small airfields. Most of them are probably just grass runways, as this is a relatively rural area. All of these airfields are tagged as aeroway=aerodrome because there is no other option, (also they were created by an import). The result is that on the Mapnik layer at zoom 15 there are many aerodromes rendered very prominently, and the one major aerodrome, Burlington International Airport, doesn't get rendered (due to conficts with other features I imagine). Ironic. I'm thinking for now I will just tag these little airfields as aeroway=airfield. Then they won't render at all, but at least they won't clutter the map.
I think the proposal above (who does it belong to?) is a good start, but commercial, public, and private don't really suggest importance to me. For public/private perhaps access=yes and access=no could be used?
According to this Wikipedia article in the UK aerodromes are broken down into six categories from large to small: Regional Airports, Major Airports, Developed Airfields, Basic Airfields, Developed Airstrips, and Basic Airstrips. I don't think OSM needs quite this level of detail, but how about aerodrome=airport, aerodrome=airfield, and aerodrome=airstrip. Airport renders at a high zoom level, Airfield at a bit lower, and Airstrips only at a very low zoom level. In my area there are also nodes tagged as aeroway=aerodrome in the middle of a lake. Clearly these are for seaplanes, and it doesn't seem right to call this type of aerodrome an airfield or an airstrip since there is no field or strip. Some google searching has turned up several references to a "water aerodrome" so how about aerodrome=water for these? I'd say they should render at the same low zoom level as an Airstrip. Of course there could be some huge seaplane bases that I don't know about...
-- Ezekielf 20:26, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I strongly agree that something needs to be done about this. I'm mapping in Upstate New York and the map is totally cluttered with hundreds of tiny landing strips, a lot of them probably no longer even existing, according to the aerial imagery. I'm no expert on airports, so I'm not sure what the best solution is, but let's please implement something.Hobbesvsboyle 15:22, 4 June 2011 (BST)
OMG, this scheme needs to change in a big way! Presently, the grass field where Farmer Brown lands his cropduster appears exactly the same on OSM as O'Hare! I dunno how to express myself yet on wiki, but here are several suggestions:
The current practice of airports only appearing at scales 10, 11, and 12 makes no sense. As soon as you get close enough to an airport to be looking at the neighborhood roads, the airport vanishes off the map! They need to appear at least up to scale 16, perhaps all the way to 19.
The idea of calling a military airport an "airfield" is confusing, that's not what they're called, and using an icon that looks like a pathetic little propeller-driven plane only adds to the confusion.
There should be three distinct types of "aerodrome": 1) a commercial airport, any place you can buy a ticket to Cleveland and check your bags. This should be called an "airport", and the existing icon is just fine, it looks like an airliner. 2) a military airport. This should be called an "air base", and an icon that looks like a jet fighter is needed. 3) a General Aviation airport, the kind of place you can land your Cessna. This should be called an "airfield", and the icon presently used for "airfield" is perfectly suitable -- it looks like a little Cessna. Airfields can be further divided into "public" and "private" using the existing tags. Airports can be further divided into regional, national, or international.
Obviously, at what scale each of these shows up differs. An airport should show up by scale 10, perhaps even 9. An air base might show up at 9 or 10 as well. A public airfield shouldn't appear until scale 12 or 13, maybe even 14. And a private airfield shouldn't appear until scale 15 or 16.--Kirbert (talk) 07:02, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Civil, military, private

Any distinction in tagging? Ojw 21:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I assume military should be military=airfield instead of using aeroway=aerodrome. We need a tag for private airfields though. RehpotsirhC 16:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

What about small airstrips

What about small airstrips that shouldn't be given the same prominence on the map as major airports?

Airfield

For a glider landing/starting area I'd suggest to use aeroway=airfield, which means an unpaved or loosely paved area to be used and reserved for Aircraft operation. Common maps distinguish between those and regular airports, which makes sense to me.--tmeller 17:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Aeroway=airport?

I've seen aeroway=airport in use in a number of locations, and (importantly) they are rendered differently. On the Mapnik layer, they are shown with a filled icon, vs. an outlined icon for aeroway=aerodrome. On the Osmarender layer, aeroway=aerodrome shows no icon at all. The rendering and the data agree that there is a difference, so we should look at defining a difference. I suggest that locations with regular passenger service (scheduled or charter) are tagged aeroway=airport, since for very many people this will be an important distinction. Chriscf 09:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is important distinction between airport, aerodrome and airfield, probably defined by ICAO. This distinction is usually propagated into local air safety laws. E. g., airport has air traffic control, maybe customs, and a lot of different services that could operate 24 h/day.

Airfield could be just a piece of lawn. So, difference is huge. DarkoS

Aircraft Training / Aviation Flight School

I realize it's not really an Aeroway tag, but I couldn't think of a better place to ask. Does a tag for this exist? Otherwise what would be a good tag? amenity=flight_school? --AndiG88 (talk) 23:25, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

What about aeroway=flight_school? -- Tinshack 04:56, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Aeroway=concourse

Should a new tag aeroway=concourse be created ? Some airports (e.g. JFK Airport) have multiple terminals and some terminals (e.g. Terminal 4 in JFK) have multiple concourses (e.g Concourse A and B in Terminal 4 in JFK). I am not sure about the best way to map those concourses. There is definitely a parent-child relationship and concourses are buildings. Would that make Terminals be relations with concourses be buildings and part of a terminal relation as "outside"?

Air Traffic Control Radars

I've been collecting locations of Air Traffic Control radars at https://github.com/open-air-data/atc-radar

Specifically, these are "secondary surveillance radars". For example, this is the radar with ID "LAXS" located on the south side of LAX airport: https://www.google.com/maps/place/33%C2%B055'56.7%22N+118%C2%B024'26.8%22W/@33.9314329,-118.4071841,59a,35y,7.1h,61.42t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

I think these might make useful additions to OSM, but I wanted to check here to see what people thought; I have a couple questions. 1. I couldn't find a feature type that seemed appropriate, so I'd appreciate advice on tagging. 2. Would these best be entered by hand, or is it a good idea to import from the geojson I generated from government references? Thanks!

--Wiseman (talk) 20:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Radars are often placed atop tall structures visible for miles. That makes them worthy of mapping, in my book. I've used man_made=tower; aeroway=radar. As for import, you might want to do that manually. There's a good chance that some facilities you've listed are already in OSM. Even better if you can verify their existence on aerial imagery. Not all radars are for aviation: some could be weather or sea-related. -- Tinshack 04:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Runways: lines or areas?

This sentence is not quite clear: "Each runway should be drawn as a way and tagged as aeroway=runway with ref=*. Use surface=* for the runway surface. Runways can be defined as ways or as areas." First it says it "should" be drawn as a way, and then it says it "can" be drawn as areas too. Unless there's some specific need for drawing runways as ways, maybe it should be rephrased as: "Runways can be drawn as a way or as an area and they should be tagged as aeroway=runway with ref=*. Use surface=* for the runway surface."--Fernando Trebien (talk) 15:33, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I think, you are right. Dinamik (talk) 07:10, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

aeroway=taxiway

At the moment it is written, that aeroway=runway can be area, but aeroway=taxiway can be only a way. I think, that taxiway can be relatively big as a runway. I think, we should allow aeroway=taxiway be at an area. Dinamik (talk) 07:09, 28 August 2014 (UTC)


Why it "should not be used on areas"? I can't see a valid reason for this. --naoliv (talk) 20:22, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

I see a problem here, the yellow center line of the taxiway is followed by the plane. If your mark the taxiway as area the center line information is lost. In contrast to runways the width of a taxilane is varying, especially at intersections. Also consideration needs to be taken into rendering taxiway area on top of aeroway=apron.
But I prefer the highway approach: taxiway as definied here is a line following the yellow center line in the middle of a taxiway. This is an abstraction like the highway tag. For the area take Proposed_features/area:highway. highway=raceway also does this.
--Jojo4u (talk) 18:23, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
I think this is a good idea and I prefer "Option 2." The key area:aeroway=* would be a good solution to the mapping of a runway as well. It should be in addition to the tag aeroway=taxiway as there are good and valid reasons for someone to use either the centerline and/or area for a taxiway. It seems to me that many mappers are using sort of a weird hybrid mapping all of the curved connecting certerlines instead of just leaving it as an intersection (as you would with roads). Perhaps this would be a better alternative? --Fairchildbrad (talk) 20:14, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it should be either an area or a way, just as is currently the case with runways. That is consistent with past edits, but allows additional detail moving forward.--Korky99 04 (talk) 04:30, 27 May 2015 (UTC)