Proposal talk:Add ability to specify ordering-only phone number, sms-only phone numbers and related tags

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What orders

It is unclear whether this is for takeaway and deliveries, or an electronic (viz phone QR code, or tablet provided by more sophisticated chains) self-ordering system for dine-in completely (saves labor, and evolved from the Coronavirus pandemic). The latter is obviously inapplicable for these, as a dynamically generated QR code is needed for each table at each table.
takeaway=* , delivery=* , and drive_thru=* are standard. You don't need to invent another prefix. It can happen that different systems are used for takeaway=* and delivery=* separately. For your concern of "over-use" that I don't understand yet, ~600 delivery:partner=* already exists, but without the ability to link to the app directly.
If the need is for the same page for all these methods, you have to consider the *:orders=* below. But that doesn't show what methods are available together.
There are ~100 mobile_ordering=* and mobile_ordering:app=*. That's not generic enough. The latter has redundant meanings between mobile and app. It is ambiguous for dine-in customer self-ordering system.
—— Kovposch (talk) 23:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I had not considered the word "takeaway" (U.S. English is "take-out" but OSM is British English). As such, I think it would make sense to change the whole proposal to adding takeaway:ordering:*=*, delivery:ordering:*=*, and drive_thru:ordering:*=* to identify the means-of-contact for each kind of order. To include that last option, there doesn't appear to be a dine_in=yes/no/only equivalent as it is implied by amenity=restaurant, so no way to indicate a self-ordering system in the same way.
--JOlshefsky (talk) 00:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't find the *:ordering:*=* infix necessary. takeaway:*=* etc is simpler.
Dine-in can be ignored. It's more complicated.
—— Kovposch (talk) 11:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Comparison of suffixes with other features

For the age-old controversy of contact:*=* vs unsuffixed, there is a problem with conflicting meaning of Key:sms for whether SMS is available. There does exists payment:sms=* , but also not much fewer authentication:short_message=* (although admittedly some variations exist there).
Although there are ~260 website:orders=* for shopping in generally, I personally don't agree with the website:*=* suffixes. There's already opening_hours:url=* to follow. While there may seem to be only some dozens of reservation:url=* , both reservation:website=* and website:menu=* have been added en masse from similar instances in 2023 and 2022, showing the number has been inflated. It has been argued suffixing *:url=* is better. Talk:Order_of_key_parts#reservation:website_<>_website:reservation ( lunch:menu=* is mentioned in Key:opening_hours#Related_tags, and lunch:menu:url=* originates from Proposal:Key:lunch#Some_further_consideration_for_possible_extra_tags_(better_names_welcome) )
The meaning of *:website=* is different in brand:website=* , operator:website=* , heritage:website=* , etc. Those mean the website=* of such entities. opening_hours=* and these are attributes, not something existing on their own. Cf the special example of source:url=* to retrieve the source=* from that url=* .
—— Kovposch (talk) 23:35, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at with this comment ... I am making a big assumption that any *:sms=* would always need a phone number. If it were linked to contact=* or the proposed ordering=* (or the takeaway/delivery:ordering=* variant I discussed above) it seems unambiguous to me. Did you mean that it's *:sms=yes/no?
--JOlshefsky (talk) 00:59, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
sms=* is documented in Tag:amenity=telephone#Tags_to_use_in_combination already, so we need to consider whether contact:sms=* will cause people opposing contact:*=* to use sms=* differently. Otherwise, existing meaning is affected.
I prefer *:url=* over *:website=*
—— Kovposch (talk) 11:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Revamp the proposal per discussion above

The previous discussions were related to using "ordering=*" rather than (the update as of yesterday) adding contact:*=*-like sub-tags to takeaway:*=*, delivery:*=*, and drive-thru:*=* as well as adding ordering:sms=*, and contact:sms=* to indicate the capabilities of each of those phone numbers. JOlshefsky (talk) 20:00, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Use as suffix

To start with phone and add suffixes is what I would do. Is it necessary to distinguish delivery, shipping, takeaway, drive-thru, etc. for the phone number? Are there cases of different phone numbers? I would look for an entry like phone:*=# so IMHO phone:ordering=# would be a simple solution, like phone:reservation=#, phone:service=#, wouldn't it? This is the simple one. If we wanted to define a more universal catch-all solution we'd have to go for something like contact:*:phone=#, contact:ordering:phone=#. --Chris2map (talk) 13:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the whole takeaway/etc. delineations are not ideal, and IMO phone:ordering=* would be just as logical: reversing the hierarchical order of what-action (takeaway, delivery, etc.) versus what-method (phone, website, etc.) It seems the tagging expanded "organically" so perhaps originally there was phone=*, but (especially as COVID hit) takeaway orders dominated, and restaurants particularly added special ways to order. Nonetheless, takeaway=*, drive-thru=*, and delivery=* have already been established as a solution.
To respond to your concerns more directly, I believe that phone=* is fine if that suffices, but the other tags are useful for when there are special cases (e.g. takeaway:website=https://YakFood.OrderingProvider.com/ for a regional/local restaurant with a special ordering site.) Thanks for your attention to detail!
JOlshefsky (talk) 14:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for your response! For me it would be more natural the other way around. I can't fully explain why. If I'm looking for contact information or a phone number, phone:... is the simpler logic for me. And it would also sort all the phone numbers entered for an object one after the other. --Chris2map (talk) 16:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
If I want to order, I want to look at what modes they have. Preferably websites, apps, and messaging that I can browser through the menu, leave a record, and not be blocked by other calls or busy staff at lunch peak hours.
Sorting is a software limitation. It's up to how they interpret. They can equally identify all phone numbers, and provide a view grouping them together.
*:phone=* suffix is quite established in emergency:phone=* and operator:phone=* . takeaway=* etc attributes are main standards, that can be extended reliably. *:name=* and *:wikidata=* are used, not name:*=* and wikidata:*=* , if someone wants to look at all names and Wikidata items about an object.
There are still other ideas about different phone numbers, viz Talk:Key:phone#More_than_one_phone_number (suggesting *:conditional=* or Template:Opening hours style syntax), that doesn't favor main phone:*=* suffix. It's not well-developed yet.
phone:*=* has been used for different purposes, eg phone:mnemonic=* , and phone:tollfree=* or Key:phone#Support_for_multiple_countries codes. For the former, there is a likely case when the order number can be remembered by words, then it can be delivery:phone:mnemonic=* .
—— Kovposch (talk) 05:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
I see your arguments and they make sense too. I think starting with phone: is even easier, at first glance, but :phone could be better, even in more complex cases. I have to and will be able to get used to it. Logically, if you consider delivery and other features as sub-features, then the multiple phone numbers do not refer directly to the main feature, but each one to a certain sub-feature, such as delivery. --Chris2map (talk) 06:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)