Proposal talk:Tag:service=bus bay

Physical separation

If it is not physically separated, then there should not be a separate highway=*. A lowered kerb is not a physical separation. --ToniE (talk) 11:45, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

That's mentioned throughout the proposal, most notable under when not to use it (though I could probably be more clear that one shouldn't draw a way in that situation either).

I would like to see some examples. Paint or a different surface are in general not sufficient to be mapped as separate highways in OSM. Please remember that we do have lane tagging that allows to map an additional lane in great detail without the need of a separate highway. --Mueschel (talk) 17:31, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Why not bus_bay=yes?

The text here is wrong: bus_bay=right, bus_bay=left and bus_bay=both do exist --ToniE (talk) 11:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

You're misunderstanding the point. What I meant here are alternatives I've considered and my conclusion to use service=bus bay over bus bay=yes is that the current definition of bus bay=* is about the existence of a bus bay but not whether a way is a bus bay.

OK, understood. I've seen so many highway=service w/o any service=* mapping bus bays as separate OSM ways, where the bus bay is not physically separated in reality. This is due to the lack of knowing that bus_bay=* exists?

My concern: Mappers could fall back to the old, incorrect behaviour of mapping those bus bays as separate OSM way, because of "why should I add bus_bay=* to the main road when a separate highway=service with service=bus_bay looks so nice on the map?"

--ToniE (talk) 14:10, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Would love to see images

"A picture is worth a thousand words." Please add images especially for the cases "when" and "when not" to use service=bus_bay --ToniE (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned in the thread (which I've now linked), I'm missing out some images. I've already uploaded one but have yet to embed it into the page, not mention I still need some examples of the different types of bus bays (I have one easy to access whose only separation is by kerb, at least, but still need for other examples). --ManuelB701 (talk) 13:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Are there any implied access restrictions/grants?

Could you please add a statement whether or not highway=service with service=bus_bay implies any access definitions like bus=yes or even bus=designated together with motor_vehicle=no or so? --ToniE (talk) 14:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Probably a good idea to say that highway=service+service=bus_bay has the same default access rules as highway=busway. --JeroenvanderGun (talk) 14:50, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Possible alternative tagging proposal that makes these default access rules more intuitive: use something like highway=busway+busway=bay. --JeroenvanderGun (talk) 14:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Underscore

The proposal inconsistently uses both bus_bay (with underscore) and bus bay (with space) in tags. Please use the underscore consistently. :) --JeroenvanderGun (talk) 14:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Fixed.--ManuelB701 (talk) 05:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Definition problems from examples

• 467609377 467609377 L425 Rheinhessenstraße
  • Unsure whether center platforms are considered "bus bay"
  • There are also island platforms without raised separation for bus with left-side doors that may fit bus_bay=left on oneway=yes more, but these are not service=bus_bay https://nacto.org/publication/transit-street-design-guide/stations-stops/stop-configurations/median-stop-left-side-boarding/
    • https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/tvm24-960x637.jpg
    • https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Health-Line-Cleveland_flickr-960x643.jpg
• 494916789 494916789 Bahnhofsplatz
  • Why is this a "bus bay"? How do you distinguish small amenity=bus_station from them?
  • As I mentioned on Discourse forum, this is an example how service=bus_bay is awkward. The highway=service has bus_bay=both of its own, and the highway=unclassified even has bus_bay=left contradictory with bus_bay:left=separate .

—— Kovposch (talk) 05:31, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Bus terminals

Using inside amenity=bus_station shows how this fails at 2 aspects.

1. Each bus stand can have its own bus bay. And this again causes conflict in the meaning of bus_bay:*=separate with stands or roads next to them on each side.
2. Doesn't show the usual characteristics of bus_bay=* as being on streets

—— Kovposch (talk) 05:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Straight stops and "bay" definition

Unlike the cover photo File:Mainz_-_Bushalt_Sankt_Bernhard.jpg , a "bus bay" is similar to parking=street_side parking bays for being an extension of the roadway protruding out from the side. These straight on-line stops similar to parking=lane , or a "bus bypass" and short bus "lane", are better considered as bus stops with raised separation on their own, not bus_bay=* . Key:bus_bay cover photo File:1033@970.jpg illustrates the meaning.
—— Kovposch (talk) 06:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Redefinition and naming

This interpretation of bus_bay , and use of bus_bay:*=separate , actually conflicts with existing definition from original proposal. bus_bay=* was to be reserved for use on either the main roadway, or the highway=service , not mixed in referring to each other.

• "A bus bay must be a bay outside the main carriageway (not included in lane count) and not physically separated. "
• "If the boarding place is physically separated (splits off) from the main carriageway, make a highway=service for it and do not use this tag unless there is really a bay along the carriageway of highway=service. "

Key:bus_bay https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?oldid=1495374#Definition
As in my Discourse forum comment, using service=bus_bay creates risk of users wrongly drawing a separate highway=service when there's no raised separation.
—— Kovposch (talk) 06:03, 15 August 2024 (UTC)