From OpenStreetMap Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Foot / Bicycle

Does this tag implies foot=no + bicycle=no as well? --Nighto (talk) 10:25, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

highway=busway implies access=no + bus=designated + emergency=yes, which further implies foot=no and bicycle=no. —Colgza (talk) 13:43, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

No Rendering

Of course there is the mantra to not tag for the renderer, but changing an already mapped BRT corridor with highway=service + access=no + bus=designated to highway=busway makes it disappear from the standard rendering, which I don't think is acceptable.

Please check the following images, the first one is in z19, the ways with highway=busway are completely transparent, while in z18 the rendering still shows the previous highway=service + access=no + bus=designated. I have reverted those changes as I don't think that's reasonable.

Highway=busway in z19.jpg
Highway=service + access=no + bus=designated in z18.jpg

--Nighto (talk) 10:32, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

There's an open issue at openstreetmap-carto to render this. --Nighto (talk) 10:47, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
The Carto devs are not willing to add rendering for highway=busway until it receives a wide-enough level of adoption. Removing the highway=busway will decrease the likeliness that rendering will be added. I therefor think that you should re-add the tags that you removed.
Colgza (talk) 13:39, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Well that' sorta of chicken-and-egg problem. I honestly don't think it's acceptable to break a number of different map regions rendering just with a hope that it gets rendered eventually, without a timeframe. --Nighto (talk) 13:55, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
It's a problem, but the problem isn't relevant to the question of which tags should be used. Removing highway=busway because it does not render 'is' tagging for the renderer. The fact that this tag does not render is not a problem with this tagging scheme, but a problem with the renderer. —Colgza (talk) 15:00, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry I didn't made myself clear. The problem I see is that highway=busway conflicts with highway=service, which is one of the tags currently used to (correctly) map BRT systems. Just because highway=busway was created it doesn't make highway=service (with the other tags combination) invalid, and therefore changing all BRT systems worldwide to the new tag could even be perceived as vandalism, specially because the work of dozens of people would become invisible.--Nighto (talk) 15:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
I did not misunderstand you, but I'm afraid that I was unclear myself, and for that, I apologize. What I am trying to communicate is that rendering has absolutely no bearing on whether a tagging scheme is valid.
Because highway=busway was approved and made official, it is now invalid to tag busways with highway=service.
Although changing BRT systems to the new tag en masse could be perceived as recklessness, it is not vandalism.
Colgza (talk) 15:40, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Since service=busway is deprecated, I think service=bus should be deprecated as well. The page should recommend the new tag. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 16:44, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Most Carto developers are European. In Europe,  guided busways are much more common than  bus rapid transit systems. In the Americas and Asia, the situation is reversed: guided busways are very rare and BRTs are quite common. The reasons for this are historical and complex. Wikipedia is probably incomplete, from these links I quickly calculated at least 830 km of BRTs and at least 68 km of guided busways in the world. I don't expect the actual numbers to be much higher than those lower boundaries. BRTs are cheaper to build and operating costs are similar, since most guided busways systems are not fully autonomous, so BRTs tend to proliferate faster. To avoid the chicken-and-egg situation, we should create an organized activity and involve the local communities. What needs to be done is not difficult, we must only ensure that local communities understand and agree with the change, as their BRTs will be temporarily blank on the map. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 15:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

"Remove your just-approved tag because it's not rendered yet" is a nonsense argument. There is no 'forward compatible' way to tag for the renderer. Please have some patience and if possible contribute to the upgraded tagging scheme to speed up the transition process. --501ghost (talk) 15:53, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

It appears that the rendering is not yet done, and TransJakarta busways in Jakarta are currently tagged as highway=service to make them show on the map (see Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)