Proposal talk:Free Water

Alternative solutions

Must answer this:

1. Is there free drinking water available ?
2. For whom is it free ? if it is the case that there is free water available
3. If it is free for everyone, can you bring your own container ?. (bottle)

drinking_water:free = <no/yes/customers>
drinking_water:free:container = <bring_own/provided> --European water (talk) 06:37, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

drinking_water:fee=yes/no
drinking_water:fee:conditional="no @ customers" alternavite: drinking_water:fee:customers=no
drinking_water:bottle=yes/no see bottle=*
--Florimondable (talk) 17:00, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Adding new proposal - 100% KISS. drinking_water:refill_scheme = <yes/no> --European water (talk) 06:49, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Is it about free water only or water pricing?

Hi and thank to have quickly learn how to propose tags there, this is a great effort.
As I read your proposal, I wonder if we'd better introducing (or even use existing one) a tag about water pricing and a dedicated value for free of charge supply. Have a look to charge=* or fee=* and evaluate opportunities about things like charge:water=free. That would be great to have a consistent way of describing free supplies of water, electricity, food... Fanfouer (talk) 09:00, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, I did in the tagging mailling the proposal to use drinking_water:fee=*, I copy past my arguments:

"use drinking_water https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:drinking_water

«drinking_water=* indicates whether a feature provides drinking water, specifically whether water is drinkable for humans. »

So if a cafe provide the service of supplying drinking water, I would use the usual access values with this key

drinking_water=yes/no/private/...

and use fee https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee

«The fee tag is for specifying whether a fee is usually charged for a service, or for access. »

the service here is the drinking water so

drinking_water:fee=yes/no

And if more precision is needed use drinking_water:fee:conditional=*

Of course most of the cafe give drinking water (though may be not completely drinkable...) so drinking_water can be optional here.

No new tag is needed here, KISS ;)"

Against the use of free_water: "Because https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like

Tags are already defined and used.

free_water would be in conflict with tags fee and drinking_water.

free_water is two words with two concepts (price and service)

drinking_water:fee use the usual main:sub_propertie tagging pattern"

Florimondable (talk) 19:56, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

The tag amenity=drinking_water and the related property drinking_water=yes are generally used for features where drinking water is publically available. If you have to ask the staff of a shop or cafe to get you water from the kitchen, this should not be marked as amenity=drinking_water. It would also be strange to use drinking_water=yes for a place where you can buy water, as mentioned on the linked pages - a place that sells just water is a shop=water and any cafe in the world today can be expected to sell some type of bottled water.

I think it is best to use a tag that is clear and easy to read in plain language, and for that, "free_water=yes/no", while not perfect, is clearer than "drinking_water:fee" and much clearer than "drinking_water:fee:conditional" or "charge:water". Avoid over namespacing. --Jeisenbe (talk) 22:41, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

This is why I proposed the tag drinking_water=ask in my proposal -Bkil (talk) 20:15, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Add a note

I know the voting has just started, but only came across this proposal just now. I recently went to london and had a water which had to be refilled. So I just used one of the websites that lists places I could go, and seemed like one of the few places I could find near me was a Starbucks. Problem is that going into a Starbucks just with a water bottle to be filled makes you look like the 'stupid tourist' (staff looked at us funny, because of course). So it made me wonder if having a way to filter by places that have a self-service way to fill the bottle would be good. (if I'm not feeling like buying anything, I can just fill my bottle and that's it)

To be part of the scheme a bar, cafe, restaurant, club, etc.. must have a sticker or sign stating they are willing to refill for free. Having a self serve filter is a good idea if enough people will both populate and maintain the data for the tag. The people who look stupid are the staff, not the customer. --European water (talk) 10:20, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

"Why not water_refill=yes?"

Regarding the comment during the first voting: "Why have there been so many complicated tag scheme recently? water_refill=yes would be absolutely sufficient." by Yonah Freemark

water_refill=yes could just be a water pump for refilling a watertank for plant watering. (example is a water reservoir near me where farmers can take water for using on their fields when needed) While drinking_water:refill=yes clearly defines that it's about drinkable water. --Thibaultmol (talk) 15:34, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Previous Voting results which was abandoned due to improved proposal

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• I approve this proposal. After much debate, believe the current proposal is KISS and coherent with the overall OSM ecosystem --European water (talk) 10:29, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. I agree with Andy's comments regarding a simpler main tag. Did not realize that 'scheme' could be confusing Having this data in OSM would mean that we could finally have an open/global system for keeping tracking of this. Although I personally would like to see an additional tag in the future regarding if it's a dispenser or if you have to ask at the counter to get your bottle refilled. --Thibaultmol (talk) 11:22, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Unixasket (talk) 12:26, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. I think this would be confusing for none European people who might not understand what a "water scheme" is. There has to be a more universal way to phrase it. It doesn't help that its not explained well. I wouldn't call a tagging scheme that involves five words, a namespace, and an underscore following the KISS principle either. Also, "scheme" is to similar to "type" IMO and "type" tags are generally avoided where they can be. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:51, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Brian de Ford (talk) 13:35, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Better to tag "drinking_water:refill=yes" and "drinking_water:refill_scheme=[scheme-name]". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:05, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Why have there been so many complicated tag scheme recently? water_refill=yes would be absolutely sufficient.--Yonah Freemark (talk) 14:46, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Why don't use tags drinking_water=yes + fee=yes/no? RSergei (talk) 19:52, 03 Febrary 2020 (UTC)

free_refill=* In Hungary

There are almost 700 POI's tagged with free_refill in Hungary.

According to the wiki page for Key:free_refill, this is a misstag. I had a quick search online, but I couldn't find anything about a refill scheme in Hungary. Maybe it's always been commonplace there?

--May jay wiki (talk) 21:29, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

As discussed on the respective wiki pages and the mailing list, I am strongly against abusing the word "refill" for any purpose on OpenStreetMap. There existed some random schemes for both use cases, hence all data tagged with free_refill=* is also toxic waste: Proposed features/Free drinking water by private entities, Proposed features/Refilling a purchased drink Also, in Hungary, the law states that no venue is required to provide free water, although some of the better ones do sometimes to some people. Some places are also part of such a scheme described above, but it is far from universal which one and whether they have any kind of sticker. -Bkil (talk) 20:19, 16 February 2020 (UTC)