Proposal talk:Utility poles proposal
Current status
What is the current status of this proposal? Do you need contributions from OSM contributors / contacts in the various industries? --Dónal (talk) 20:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Proposal Discussion
Is this proposal being discussed anywhere apart from the wiki? Happy to contribute. --Dónal (talk) 20:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- This proposal wasn't discussed nor notified outside of wiki for now. Local examples may be useful but I need time to write it down, wait for it Fanfouer (talk) 20:49, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Adding man_made=utility_pole to power=pole?

power=pole
is preserved and mappers aren't encouraged to mix man_made=utility_pole
and power=pole
It's not clear from the examples: are you proposing adding man_made=utility_pole + utility=power to some power poles, e.g. those that also carry telephone or fiberoptic cables? --Jeisenbe (talk) 18:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Joseph, if this proposal gets adopted, it will be right and not mandatory to add
man_made=utility_pole
+utility=power
to anypower=pole
object. Meaning ofpower=pole
won't change. Examples that gotman_made=utility_pole
+utility=power
correspond to poles that primary role is to support power lines. Fanfouer (talk) 21:19, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think that's a good idea. Why add 3 tags instead of one? Also, in that case it would not be correct to edit the power=pole page to say that the two tags were implied: if they are implied, then they don't need to be added. --Jeisenbe (talk) 00:41, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't write that
man_made=utility_pole
+utility=power
should be added topower=pole
objects but it won't be wrong to do so. Unless I missed where in the wiki it is not recommended to add implied tags to osm objects? - Poles, towers, portals... are supports and not proper power or telecom objects just like a
marker=*
is not a pipeline device. That's why I findman_made=utility_pole
+utility=telecom
more consistent thantelecom=pole
Fanfouer (talk) 21:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)- It's fine to add tags which are not redundant, but in this case
power=pole
already clearly indentifies the object as a power utility pole, so adding two more tags does not give any additional information. - Are you proposing to eventually deprecate
power=pole
and instead useman_made=utility_pole
+utility=power
? That seems to be the only reason to propose duplicating these tags. But I think that would be unnecessary and more work for mappers: two tags, one of them rather long, need to be used instead of one short tag which provides identical information to the two new tags.--Jeisenbe (talk) 05:23, 23 September 2020 (UTC)- The proposal won't make
power=pole
deprecated. It's clear in the document. Can you explain us why power poles should getpower=pole
and others will get commonman_made=utility_pole
? - As
utility=power
exists, how mappers are supposed to choose betweenpower=pole
andman_made=utility_pole
+utility=power
if the first doesn't imply the lasts? Fanfouer (talk) 22:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
- The proposal won't make
- It's fine to add tags which are not redundant, but in this case
- I didn't write that
- I don't think that's a good idea. Why add 3 tags instead of one? Also, in that case it would not be correct to edit the power=pole page to say that the two tags were implied: if they are implied, then they don't need to be added. --Jeisenbe (talk) 00:41, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Needs to be more extensible

I think that man_made=utility_pole
is an excellent first step to a better tagging scheme. Where I live (in Massachusetts) most utility poles are owned by the telephone company (according to my friend who works at Verizon) and the electric company and whoever has a CATV contract for the town leases space on the poles. So to say we should tag "utility=*
to give the main activity for which the pole was installed" seems like something not possible for the common person to answer. If you don't have a friend from Verizon you might say it's a pole for electricity because their wires are bigger. We need a scheme that can describe all the different utilities on the pole without needing to divine which is the primary purpose. A utility pole can simultaneously carry the following:
- High voltage electricity
- Lower voltage electricity
- Coaxial cable carrying TV; telephone & internet
- Copper wire bundles for telephone & T1 internet (called POTS by telephone workers)
- Fiber optic cables carrying TV; telephone & internet
- Electrical transformers
- CATV or telephone equipment cabinets
- Street lights
- A fire emergency pull box with a corresponding red light above
- Did I miss anything?
One tag utility=*
is inadequate to describe all of the above. In my area 3 companies have wires on the same poles. One electric & two telecoms. What's the best way to extend this tag? By company type? By wire type? By wire purpose? Do we use utility_electric or utility:electric? I think we need to get more perspectives from around the world.--Rassilon (talk) 16:33, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hi ! That's good information thank you.
- The point of
utility=*
combined toman_made=utility_pole
isn't to state the list of what is carried by a given pole but to give its original purpose. - We can retreive what is hold by a pole by looking at ways it is member of, it's not necessary to list them in a tag.
- As you mention poles holding power lines owned by a telecom company, are you able to find out why Verizon had built stronger poles to hold power lines if its first plan was to roll out telephone? Currently and although people won't be knowledgeable about Verizon, they will be tempted to tag them
power=pole
(and may be forced to:power=line
expectspole
ortower
as supports). - Here is how I think we can retreive every pole usage :
- High voltage electricity : pole member of a
power=line
way - Lower voltage electricity : pole member of a
power=minor_line
way - Coaxial cable carrying TV; telephone & internet : pole member of a way with tags remaining to be defined (
telecom=line
eventually) +telecom:medium=coaxial
- Copper wire bundles for telephone & T1 internet (called POTS by telephone workers) : pole member of a way with tags remaining to be defined (
telecom=line
eventually) +telecom:medium=copper
- Fiber optic cables carrying TV; telephone & internet : pole member of a way with tags remaining to be defined (
telecom=line
eventually) +telecom:medium=fibre
- Electrical transformers :
transformer=*
on the pole (and eventuallysubstation=*
, see Proposed_features/Substation_nodes_extension) - CATV or telephone equipment cabinets:
street_cabinet=*
on the pole - Street lights
highway=street_lamp
on the pole - A fire emergency pull box with a corresponding red light above : not aware of an eventual
emergency=*
value to add on the pole - Did I miss anything? Maybe wires used for local sound system used by local authorities, but that would be an additional way
power=tower
So power=pole would imply man_made=utility_pole but power=tower
not, right? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Against man_made=utility_pole + utility=power

power=pole
is preserved and mappers aren't encouraged to mix man_made=utility_pole
and power=pole
Adding "man_made=utility_pole + utility=power" as synonym of power=pole
is not helpful, I would rather deprecate utility=power
and consider it as undesirable duplicate of power=pole
/ power=tower
"anyone interested will be able to add man_made=utility_pole + utility=power beside power=pole" - it sounds like first step toward attempt to deprecate power=pole
Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:27, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
utility=power
is far more generic than poles topic. It can be added on many facilities dedicated to power networks, street cabinets, buildings and there's no reason to deprecate it this way.- This proposal only intends to make a necessary link between power and telecom poles mapping. It comes out of the ground observation they're similar features with different tagging. The short term point isn't to deprecate
power=pole
but to don't encouragetelecom=pole
. Fanfouer (talk) 22:35, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Electric meters

man_made=street_cabinet
Also in rural areas, being able to confirm one is standing next to the correct electric meter could be a lifesaver in areas with no other landmarks.
Currently one must fake electric meters with street cabinet=*
. City slickers just don't understand how important (serial numbered) electric meters are as landmarks. Jidanni (talk) 07:37, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- If electric meter is not
street_cabinet=*
- then please do not enter it this way! Feel free to invent a new tag if you need it Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)- I second Mateusz comment, a new tag should be defined for meters (why not
power=meter
as a dedicated power device) and then it could be combined toman_made=utility_pole
if installed on a pole. Fanfouer (talk) 23:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC) - I third Mateusz comment! --Nospam2005 (talk) 10:17, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
- I second Mateusz comment, a new tag should be defined for meters (why not