Talk:Tag:parking=layby

Purpose of this tag?

I don't see the purpose of this tag. Yes, it is described on the wiki how to use it. But why should it be used? Why is it needed? The parking place is either parking=street_side or parking=surface and the whole area including the service road and picnic tables is a highway=rest_area. Why is omitting the rest_area and just using parking=layby instead useful? Aceman444 (talk) 10:15, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

While physically often similar to parking=street_side, lay-bys appear to have different semantics. E.g., they are 'more interesting' to motorists than normal street-side parking bays, and navigation apps and renderers can highlight them accordingly. As to why mappers don't use highway=rest_area instead: parking=layby seems to feel like just a step below a proper rest-area to some, and it is less work to tag a minimal layby with just parking=layby when its outline isn't exactly clear. That's how I see this tag anyway. You would have to ask other mappers who use this tag for their opinion though. --JeroenHoek (talk) 10:27, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

In the UK these small lay-bys are all over the place, especially out of towns, sometimes they're the size of a couple of cars sometimes a few lorries can fit on them. They are always free, always considered part of the road, not a private enterprise like most "rest areas", they usually have zero amenities and have few restrictions, if any, of what can use them or for how long. They are quite unique. Bigfatfrog67 (talk) 16:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Does this imply parking=surface?

Is this a subtype of parking=surface or is it orthogonal? —-Dieterdreist (talk) 22:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Neither. It is a unique type sometimes similar in physical appearance to street_side (for the simpler types) and similar in importance to a large surface. (If by orthogonal you mean unrelated, it is better to use the latter.) --JeroenHoek (talk) 09:04, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

How parking=layby and parking=street_side differ?

Triggered by https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/discussions/5704 - after reading the page they seem to represent the same thing... Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:00, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

They are physically similar, but have different uses. A lay-by is a safe place to stop (e.g., for rest) on a larger road. For motorists these are important, and a good motorists map will prominently feature these (as well as highway=emergency_bay). Street-side parking is just parking along a street without its own access roads. You don't want to render these prominently on a motorists map, and conversely, if you are looking for a parking space, you don't need parking=layby. Compare these entries here. --JeroenHoek (talk) 14:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@JeroenHoek: but how does one verifiably determine what the "intended use" of specific parking is? Is there a specific sign or road marking? Different look/architecture of it? Proximity to the city limits or amenities? Combination of those? Or any other physical evidence which can be independently verified and always return the same answer no matter which mapper is asked? Rest area wiki that you mention doesn't really describe the difference, just lists other similar tags. You say layby is on a "larger road"; does that mean that parking which would be parking=street_side on highway=unclassified is always to be tagged as parking=layby if it is on e.g. highway=primary and vice versa, or something similar? --mnalis (talk) 23:04, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Look at the photos on the wiki page for the typical examples, or ask people in countries where these are common (UK, France, etc.). Is it isolated from potential POI's and is it impossible for anyone getting out of the car to actually walk somewhere else without having to go along the shoulder of a road not suitable for pedestrians? Does it sit on a larger high importance road outside of any built-up areas? If so, then it is probably a lay-by. --JeroenHoek (talk) 06:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

To be honest anyone in the UK would be able to identify what a lay-by is, it's a commonly used name for these types of parking. Street side parking, as the name suggests, only exists in built up areas where there are "streets". Also, most street side parking has restrictions on it, who can park and for how long and what cost. A layby rarely has any restrictions. There are rarely any signs designating them, some are old parts of the road that has since been bypassed, some are just areas where the road has a large verge and vehicles use it to stop on, some can be found in villages to enable passing traffic to stop to use nearby shops etc, the larger ones are often used by lorries to take their breaks on. There are no bays painted, usually no road markings, there may sometimes be a rubbish bin. The larger ones that are distinct from the road can be mapped as a service road usually they are just on the side off the carriageway and aren't separate from the road so should be mapped either on one or many nodes of the road Bigfatfrog67 (talk) 08:29, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure anyone who's ever driven a car in Europe can identify them. We don't have many of these in the Netherlands, but you'll encounter them in various other countries on the continent (and the UK obviously). --JeroenHoek (talk) 08:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Instead

"If there is then consider using highway=rest_area instead."

I think it is a bit confused. highway=rest_area would include parkings within it, it does not replace mapping parking or parking type.

Maybe "If there is then consider mapping highway=rest_area with appropriate parking=* value instead."

BTW, it is pity that layby is not mapped as separate object type (like rest area is), but it is functional subtype of parking=street_side tagged as a separate value, differing by function and not by physical characteristics. This makes it quite confusing and annoying to support in editors (see https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/discussions/5704 )

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:54, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe it could have been better as eg highway=layby , similar to highway=emergency_bay , to complement highway=rest_area . I didn't focus on this in the proposal, mostly agreeing based on moving away from parking=lay_by , and going along with parking=lane . But It's not completely a subset of parking=street_side . Depends on your definition. I might say it's orthogonal, describing a different dimension.
Fundamentally, it's a problem of parking=* . parking=surface etc are a carpark / parking lot. parking=street_side , parking=layby , and parking=lane are not. All these already mix the facility, environment, and position.
Eg it may be possible to have on-roadway parking resembling parking=lane in a parking=surface lot, that can be converted into a motorized traffic lane, on a wide highway=service access road. This can't be shown yet. Or there can be parking spots on a stacked elevated road, or underground road, but they won't be parking=multi-storey / parking=rooftop , or parking=underground .
There was a parking=street before, mentioned in the proposal. Maybe using it to organize is more ideal. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?oldid=2066642#Other_values
—— Kovposch (talk) 12:29, 31 July 2024 (UTC)