Talk:Tag:amenity=drinking water

Apps

I've just tested a handfull of drinking water apps to see if I could add them to the list in this wiki. Unfortunately all of them used Google maps to show the map, and I could not find any info on any of them about where they got the data about water fountains from, or what would happen to the data if you added a fountain in the few apps I found that would let you add more (would they be added to OSM or not). How could I try to figure out if the data comes from OSm or not, so I could know if I can add the app to this wiki article or not?

The apps I tried: Drinking Fountains (Italy), Tap, RefillMyBottle (didn't see what map data they use, they required an account), Refill, GiveMeTap, Free tap water Belgium (only lists restaurants etc, not public drinking fountains). --Forteller (talk) 21:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

• "How could I try to figure out if the data comes from OSm or not" - app should attribute in case that it is used, but many are using it illegally without atttribution or hide it. To check it you may use http://overpass-turbo.eu/ to look for OSM data (especially incorrect OSM data) and look is app displaying exactly the same info (if you never used it amenity=drinking_water display is a default example). Comment here if you need more help Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 19:42, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

missing fountain features/tags

freeze-resistant/all-season fountains

In places where it freezes in winter, outdoor drinking water fountains are typically shut off for the season in fall (September?), then turned back on in late spring (May?); no drinking water for half the year or more. (:-( Companies now make freeze-resistant water fountains that are designed to operate year-round; there are building-mounted ones, as well as free-standing ones. Mapillary image example: Chautauqua Ranger Station trailhead, Boulder, Colorado, USA. -- DougGrinbergs (talk) 19:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

I was going to read up on the proposal process to propose an addition of a tag for how long the fountain is open (from month to month). Has anyone done this yet? --Forteller (talk) 21:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

You can use the very common tag opening_hours=* to specify the season when a feature is available. For example, opening_hours=Mar-Nov: sunrise-sunset for a feature open during daylight hours from March to November, or opening_hours=24/7 for year-round, all hours availability. --Jeisenbe (talk) 11:49, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, but the opening hours tag is not available when adding or editing a drink water point in iD --Forteller (talk) 12:24, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

You can always use "All tags" available at the bottom of editing panel, allowing to use any tags. Or use a different editor Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:35, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

It would be nice to have opening_hours=* on useful combination panel. In my country (Bulgaria) almost all drinking water fountains in the cities are maintained during Mar-Oct and shut off in winter.--Plamen (talk) 09:34, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

water bottle refill facility

Some companies make drinking water fountains with bottle refill spigots. Mapillary image example: Chautauqua Ranger Station trailhead, Boulder, Colorado, USA. Some indoor fountains have a beam sensor to activate the fountain. -- DougGrinbergs (talk) 19:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

"Tag bottle=yes if it offers an easy way to fill a portable water container." --Jeisenbe (talk) 12:48, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

doggie fountain

Some outdoor drinking water fountains have a ground-level dispenser for dogs. Mapillary image example: Chautauqua Ranger Station trailhead, Boulder, Colorado, USA. -- DougGrinbergs (talk) 19:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

amenity=watering_place is a place where animals drink water, so perhaps watering_place=yes could be added as an attribute of the feature amenity=drinking_water? However, "watering place" isn't very intuitive. Is there a more natural English language expression for these things? I've seen them, but I don't think I know what to call them.

Update: the page for amenity=watering_place says "Tag dog=yes indicates a dog water bowl is available as well.--Jeisenbe (talk) 12:48, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

drinking water quality?

I would like to propose a set of values for drinking_water to indicate approximate quality of the source of water.

drinking_water=stream could indicate water that comes from a body of water like a river or stream, which could be potentially contaminated (i.e. use with caution).

drinking_water=deep_well could indicate water that comes from a fairly deeply drilled well with a closed pump on top (what is called a "forage" in French). These wells are typically harder to contaminate.

drinking_water=treated could indicate water that has been treated by a reputable source (the water company, etc.).

-- Glasserc 07:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Amenities that will refill your water bottle

How should tag amenities (e.g. cafes) that are happy to refill water bottles?

--May jay wiki (talk) 11:32, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Subjective criteria for the quality of the water

I agree to the proposal from Glasserc above - it is very important to have a notion about the quality of the drinking water. When you are at the source it is often possible to estimate the quality - these estimates should also be taggable in the map to help planning e.g. during trecking tours. Tags for official measurements could be added as well but I'm not familiar with these things, so I will not do it.

Thus below a suggestion for the tags that can be estimated by everyone:

drinking_water:quality=official_drinking_water: If the water is checked and approved by the officials - e.g. because it is tap water.

drinking_water:quality=pure_source: If there are objective reasons that allow you to conclude that the water is pure, even though it is not checked. E.g. in alpine territory the source can be above any civilization. There should be no reason to doubt about the quality.

drinking_water:quality=commonly_used: One can assume that the water is pure because many people drink it every day (including the mapper) and do not get ill.

drinking_water:quality=likely_ok: The water looks OK and clean but otherwise there is no indication that it is good.

drinking_water:quality=questionable: The water does not really seem suited for drinking.

The tags values are intentionally a bit blurry as it should be clear that these are not 100% reliable descriptions.

See also this discussion on the german mailing list.

--Grungelborz (talk) 19:33, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

"Theme" (?) Type

In some cities there are a lot of `drinking_water` that share a certain historical and cultural context, and so they so differs from many others most common. For example in Turin (Italy) there is the "Toret" `drinking_water` (Toret (Turin, Italy)) and it's so common and so different from many others.

I think can be useful to categorize these "cultural themes" of fountains, somehow. Suggestions? --Valeriobozz (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

(...But perhaps it's can be safely placed in the "name" field.) --Valeriobozz (talk) 22:47, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Have a look to WikiProject France/Fontaines Wallace --FrViPofm (talk) 22:09, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

OK so I will use only "artwork_type" :) Thank you --Valeriobozz (talk) 08:42, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Too much tags !

Too much !

1. amenity=drinking_water
2. amenity=water_point
3. amenity=watering_place
4. natural=spring
5. amenity=fountain
6. man_made=water_well

KISS  ! We already have enough tags !

amenity=water_point (or better amenity=water_supply) + amount=* + drinking_water=* + man_made=fountain/water_well/trough/wash_house + access=* would fit !

and it is to the renderer to chose the aspect(s) being rendered (drinkable for hiking maps, construction, tourism, nature...).

Or we will soon have more values amenity=plant_watering_place, amenity=chicken_watering_place

--FrViPofm (talk) 22:10, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

These tags are for things that are completely different concepts in natural language, though. Why would we use the same tag for all of them? It wouldn't reduce complexity, as we would still need to distinguish between springs, decorative fountains, water sources for animals and so on. It would only move the distinctions from the top-level tag into the subtags, requiring more tags per object. --Tordanik 12:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Different tags - different things... It would be nice to coordinate them into one system .. but people will cry 'don't change well used tags', 'what is the benefit' .. so I add man_made=drinking_fountain the mix! Warin61 (talk) 00:23, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea why you think that there is anything wrong with amenity=fountain, natural=spring, man_made=water_well... Though amenity=drinking_water and amenity=water_point really should not be a contradictory tags Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 21:34, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Rendering

The suggested rendering is of a tap ... not a bubbler/water fountain. Surely this is deceptive and should be changed to something that actually suggests what is being mapped? Warin61 (talk) 06:23, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Seems to be resolved as there is no suggested rendering on the page Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 10:28, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Temperature

Is cold and warm water really inportant? I could find a lot of useful usage and real-life application. Most drinking water is room temperature and that varies from location to location. If it is not important, please remove mentioning these tags in the wiki.

--Pander (talk) 15:44, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't recall adding that! Anyway ... I would use temperature=ambient for most situations (where the water is at or near the local air temperature). The only situation where it could be usefull is where the temperature drops below freezing for long periods of time. See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Temperature Warin61 It maybe useful to have that link as a 'see also'? (talk) 23:07, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Arr! This may have been added for office/inside a building use. To make tea/coffee or provide cooled drinking water. So that may well have little present use. I'd obviously prefer the use of 'my' temperature scheme though. Warin61 (talk) 23:18, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I added these tags about temperature after discuss with I don't remember nor 'to who' neither 'where' anymore. I believe that is important because it is common where I live to find in public areas device where you can drink/take cold, natural, or hot water (hot to drink Chimarrão mainly inside universities' campi. What would be the orientation when the same device has both cold and hot water? temperature=hot;cold ? Santamariense (talk) 00:41, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Best to put discussions where you (and others) can find them. So .. this hot/cold .. is it from one spout (pipe outlet) .. then temperature=adjustable, temperature:minimum=cold, temperature:maximum=hot. If it is from two spouts then map each spout as separate OSM entities (each has a separate OSM node). I would think this is more normal from a tap outlet rather than a drinking fountain .. see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dwater_tap Warin61 (talk) 02:06, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

When I documented these tags, I thought them like temporary tags, or permanent if no another arised up. This wiki have to be modified to the draft temperature scheme, and If the community is according to, disable what was yet mapped as cold_water and hot_water. Santamariense (talk) 02:32, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

So there is (IMHO in general sense) iced (actively made very cold), cooled (actively made cold), cold (e.g. from melting glacier or deep well), ambient (room/air temperature, e.g. cities from taps or from non-deep or shallow wells and ponds), warm (from a hot spring, for showering or hot tubs), warmed (actively warmed, for showering or doing dishes), boiling (actively heated for cooking, tea, coffee and instant soup) Pander (talk) 12:28, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes to the above, the common use terms such as 'hot', 'cold' etc would be the terms that I would use in OSM tagging as these require less thought by the mapper. However, bubblers/drinking fountains to my knowledge only provide water at either ambient or cold/chilled temperatures, the water is intended for direct human consumption without further additions (tea/coffee/cordial etc). So I suspect this is for a tap outlet and should use man_made=water_tap Warin61 (talk) 21:42, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Clearly the water from the aqueduct in cities is not "ambient" or "room temperature" but usually much cooler, due to underground pipes (typically below 15°C, but it depends on the depth of the tubes and on the outside temperatures, naturally). --Dieterdreist (talk) 11:14, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

In cemeteries

I maintain the drinking water fountains in Flanders. I don't want to maintain the faucets in the cemetaries. Has anyone an idea for an addional tag to make the distinction ?

Are faucets in the cemeteries also providing a drinkable water? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 10:26, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes we don't know.

Some people just don't like going for a drink there.

But there are many more of them than the official drinking water fountains.

@Philippec: One option to consider might be man_made=drinking_fountain, although it's still quite new and not established. --Tordanik 10:44, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

"faucets" - maybe add man_made=water_tap to them? amenity=drinking water is correct for ones where there is a drinking water, but you can also specify it more clear. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 10:28, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

"I don't want to maintain the faucets in the cemetaries" - is there any problem with just not maintaining them, not editing them and ignoring any added by other users? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 10:28, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Photo Examples

@Mateusz Konieczny, thanks for your recent page updates, including modification of Tag:amenity=drinking_water#Photo_Examples. One question. Would these kind of elements also match to the tagging of amenity=drinking_water?:
- https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q72950792 / https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q72950792#/media/File:Albankloster-Brunnen.jpg
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:047_Font_del_noi_dels_c%C3%A0ntirs,_pl._Urquinaona.jpg
- https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q72936505 / https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q72936505#/media/File:Rheingasse_48.jpg
If so, could we also add any of it?--MalgiK (talk) 20:24, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

It depends on whatever provided water is drinkable. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree. --MalgiK (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Third one seems dubious, water seems stale there, Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

True, this is the first appearance, if you zoom in & take some more time for investigation, maybe then you can see the 2 jets of fresh water, see here: https://ibb.co/tPPLfM0 --MalgiK (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

... the first two (assuming that water is coming from municipality water system) would have drinkable water and would fit - in my city. This may not be true elsewhere.. But again, it depends on the situation - ones providing water that is not drinkable or not providing water at all would not fit. Third one also would be tricky - is it a fountain? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Exaclty, it's a bit tricky - and this is the reason, why i would like to talk about it, maybe even on a wider forum. --MalgiK (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

In that case there would be a conflict due to shared use of an amenity=* key Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Dropping some confusing tags from the examples

I think that some examples contain misleading and/or deprecated tagging. For example, the first one has amenity=drinking_water,man_made=water_tap, fountain=drinking and drinking_water=yes. This one can be simplified to amenity=drinking_water and man_made=water_tap. drinking_water=yes is implied by the amenity=drinking_water. Furthermore, a 'fountain' is IMHO something that points upwards.

The last one has man_made=drinking_fountain, a tag which states on the wiki page that it is very ambiguous and has only 781 features worldwide, a fraction of the ~295000 amenity=drinking_water features worldwide. Can we kill this tag and decrease fragmentation? --Pietervdvn (talk) 00:25, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

"man_made=drinking_fountain, a tag which states on the wiki page that it is very ambiguous and has only 781 features worldwide, a fraction of the ~295000 amenity=drinking_water" - it is not expressing the same thing, note that amenity=drinking_water can be also on for example spring without any man made facility Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:16, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

It is true that amenity=drinking_water is broader, but man_made=drinking_fountain can, IMHO always be replaced by a combination of other values, e.g. fountain=drinking, that is what I'm trying to say --Pietervdvn (talk)