Proposal:Healthcare 1.1

Healthcare 1.1
Proposal status:	Rejected (inactive)
Proposed by:	SafetyIng
Tagging:	healthcare=* Data item
Applies to:
Definition:	Cleanup healthcare tagging after healthcare proposal 2010
Statistics:
Draft started:	2022-10-02
RFC start:	2022-10-02
Vote start:	2022-11-05
Vote end:	2022-11-19

Proposal

• Deprecate amenity=healthcare, amenity=clinic, amenity=dentist, amenity=hospital, amenity=doctors, amenity=doctors, amenity=pharmacy
• Deprecate amenity=nursing_home and amenity=retirement_home, because they have already been replaced by amenity=social_facility + social_facility=*
• Deprecate health_facility:type=*, health specialty:*=*, office=therapist, office=physician, office=nurse and office=nursing_service
• Introduce the existing and approved healthcare=* tagging as a "main feature", as envisaged in the first healthcare proposal in 2010.

Rationale

With the 2010 proposal, there is a double-tagging option for health facilities. Some of the editors once included it and then discarded it. This leads sometimes to confusion by mappers.

To tidy up this situation, I propose the following changes. Likewise, editors, mappers and data users will then have a uniform consensus for further development.

In an article on community.osm.org, the distribution levels between amenity and healthcare were compared accordingly and graphics were posted.

Tagging

In the tagging itself, there will be no major changes in either option A or B. Only the introduction of amenity=healthcare, if necessary.

Editors, Data consumers, Renderers

This proposal has a medium-term impact on editors, data consumers and renderers. This proposal encourages them to support healthcare=* in the short term. Renderers should stop supporting deprecated tags in the medium to long term after a corresponding transition phase.

Features/Pages affected

• Key:amenity
• Tag:amenity=doctors
• Tag:amenity=dentist
• Tag:amenity=hospital
• Tag:amenity=clinic
• Tag:amenity=nursing home
• Tag:amenity=retirement home
• Tag:social facility=nursing home
• Tag:social facility=group home
• Tag:amenity=social facility

External discussions

https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/doppeltagging-amenity-doctors-healthcare-doctor/2602

Comments

Please comment on the discussion page.

Voting

Voting closed

Voting on this proposal has been closed.

It was rejected with 25 votes for, 30 votes against and 0 abstentions.

• I approve this proposal. -- Something B (talk) 20:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Unbeatable101 (talk) 21:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Mcliquid (talk) 21:19, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. The tags amenity=hospital, amenity=clinic and amenity=dentist are extremely well established and used by all kinds of maps and applications of Openstreetmap data. These features are also clearly amenities: they are an important service that you want to have nearby in your town, and all residents and visitors will need to know the location of the closest hospital or dentist to get medical services. There is no benefit to changing to a different key, and re-tagging millions of objects while re-writing many applications would have a clear negative cost. --Jeisenbe (talk) 21:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. The healthcare tagging is not yet ready for general rollout. In particular, healthcare:speciality=* needs to be split into individual tags or you will end up with long, unreadable strings for hospitals with many different departments. -- Eiskalt-glasklar (talk) 21:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Izolight (talk) 21:39, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. For the reasons stated by Joseph Eisenberg on the tagging list[1], that these tags "are extremely well established and used by all kinds of maps and applications of Openstreetmap data. --ZeLonewolf (talk) 21:44, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Changing such deeply established tags is a bad idea. --Chillly (talk) 21:54, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. If something must be deprecated, then I would rather deprecate healthcare=hospital and stop ongoing mechanical edit by iD asking to add it to well tagged hospitals. Rationale is completely missing rationale why better established standard tag is supposed to be deprecated, rather than new one which is just pointlessly being double tagged. It is not the first attempt to deprecate this popular tags, and many people commented in the past about how they are not fans of this kind of deprecations of heavily used tags. Not sure why proposal author thought that this deprecation idea has widespread support. See Proposed features/training for latest case. Also, double tagging is not a big problem. Especially in this case where healthcare=hospital can be entirely ignored. Maybe--Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 22:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

And fixing stuff like https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2021-December/063301.html would be a better first step. Or finish cleanup of tags deprecated with very good reasons. Or propose to deprecate tags which are NOT among the most heavily used ones. Or propose to deprecate highway=unclassified that is actually problematic and causing endless confusion and there would be some benefit from such disruption. I am not fundamentally opposed but deprecating fundamental tag needs both explanation and migration plan and clear support. Mechanical edit adding healthcare=hospital to amenity=hospital would be more viable step here (or waiting few years as iD bot edit continues at slower pace) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 22:05, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

>> Discussion moved to Talk page, as nothing to do with this proposal. --SafetyIng (talk) 23:37, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• I oppose this proposal. This proposal will replace well established tags such as amenity=dentist with healthcare=dentist with no gain. --Fabi2 (talk) 22:14, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

See this discussion, for further unresolved problems. Fabi2 (talk) 00:52, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• I oppose this proposal. Too many unresolved issues, so I don't see a clear advantage of the proposed change. The overall quality of the data would decline. Just "tidiness" is not a sufficient aim in my opinion. There is no explanation what is actually meant by "further development" and why it is necessary to have uniformity before. (And I assume one won't get uniformity by this proposal). --Segubi (talk) 23:00, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Mashin (talk) 23:03, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. I am worried how much support there is for completely unrealistic ideas like deprecating established and widely used, globally important features like amenity=hospital. Apparently you are not aware how expensive this would be, how insignificant the benefit of tagging with one or the other tag (with less probability of risking the exclusion under amenity) compared to requiring from all apps to act or have hospitals disappearing. —Dieterdreist (talk) 00:23, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Besides being a bad idea, this would have no effect on most data users and editors, which would ignore it. Pnorman (talk) 01:28, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Deprecating the more proper and expandable health_specialty:*=* is the no for me. --- Kovposch (talk) 04:03, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. As said by Jeisenbe et al. --Polarbear w (talk) 07:42, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --SimonPoole (talk) 12:47, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --JassKurn (talk) 12:56, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Note that I approve deprecating amenity=nursing_home/retirement_home and I will support it if it gets presented in a separate proposal. --Dimitar155 (talk) 06:46, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --FreeExec (talk) 07:18, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Nw520 (talk) 09:38, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. A lot of these facilities like a hospital or doctors are amenities. They should therefore be tagged as such. I would rather see the healthcare tag being cleaned up to remove duplicates with amenity. --Cartographer10 (talk) 17:47, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. to not repeat needlessly, most of the reasons above --mnalis (talk) 19:21, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Really, what's the point? I guess I can see it with the amenity tags and ones that have already essentially been transferred over. I don't get the need to depreciate office=therapist, office=physician, office=nurse and office=nursing_service though. I really consider any of those "facilities" or part of the healthcare sector. Outside of maybe office=physician and office=nurse, but say an office for a doctor isn't really part of the healthcare sector in anyway that matters (the important thing there being it's a tag for the office of the doctor. Not the existence of a doctor or whatever). Although I'd also probably say the whole thing is super pedantic to begin with and I'd probably support a proposal that wasn't so all encompassing. Like say Deprecating amenity=nursing_home and amenity=retirement_home since they have already essentially been replaced, while dealing with the other tags in separate proposals. That would be my suggestion to SafetyIng as a potentially way to move this forward. Do it in smaller chunks and go from there. Adamant1 (talk) 06:55, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --501ghost (talk) 12:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. — I agree with a lot of the intent in this proposal, but there are too many parts that prevent me from supporting it. Like Adamant1, I would support a separate proposal deprecating nursing homes. Diacritic (talk) 06:05, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. As already said, I’d have prefered this proposal to be split. --Lejun (talk) 08:51, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --EneaSuper (talk) 11:43, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. The graphs in the linked discussion say it all really, this is removing a more popular set of tag for the sake of "neatness" and will probably break bunch of uses--InsertUser (talk) 12:59, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --JB (talk) 15:16, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Reino Baptista (talk) 16:30, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. I approuve, I understand that would not be easy to change such a strong established model but that's a good idea to have one key (healthcare) to identify every medical facilities. Furthermore, the key amenity is overload by too much different features (restaurant, waste basket, townhall ?!). --CapitaineMoustache (talk) 19:45, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. I think tags are more easily used if they follow the same logic, I find it easier to use and remember a tag starting with "amenity" to describe health facilities than "healthcare". I think of the new contributors and the difficulties for them to retain a different logic for healthcare infrastructure. This would be made more difficult with this change. On the other hand, I don't understand the reasons that push this change — Koreller (talk) 20:45, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --scai (talk) 21:40, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Mweper (talk) 21:52, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. just no --Agent redd (talk) 22:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. As said by CapitaineMoustache --Michi (talk) 23:35, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --GeoMechain (talk) 02:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Jeff254 (talk) 05:03, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --NKA (talk) 06:34, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. I don't see the benefit in deprecating such widely used tags. --Eginhard (talk) 22:46, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. I think it is best to address this double tagging issue --Fnuttens (talk) 13:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Gendy54 (talk) 16:59, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. I think it's a good idea to combine all healthcare objects into one common key and then describe the properties in other keys. This can cause difficulties at the initial stage, but then it will turn out much more convenient for further processing. --Grass-snake (talk) 17:15, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. I agree, thats it is devolopment cost, that we and the renderers have to take in order to advance --KoiAndBlueBird (talk) 19:02, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. as OSM grows we need to be able to adapt to ever increasing detail. The old healthcare tagging is quite a mess split between multiple main tags (amenity/office/...). Unifying it under healthcare would make growth in the future easier. Also depreciationg right jow doesn't mean that every thing will be immediately be retagged and could break certain data users. It would mean that a transition period starts that encourages people ton use the new tagging scheme before slowly retagging. --Hedaja (talk) 22:59, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --Datendelphin (talk) 07:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. I sympathize with the basic idea of cleaning up the amenity space but in the case of such widespread tags I think more work will be necessary than a proposal deprecating the "old" tags. Gently nudge people into using the "new" tags for many years and then when everyone uses the new tags, we can discuss this again. --Woodpeck (talk) 09:08, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --Das-g (talk) 12:46, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --R2d (talk) 12:48, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. ye --Emilius123 (talk) 16:47, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. Let us at least start cleaning our house and get rid of double tagging. Having two tags for the very same objects is embarrassing. Duja (talk) 08:11, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. We should get rid of healthcare=doctor|dentist|clinic|hospital, not amenity= version. Maraf (talk) 08:46, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. --Geonick (talk) 11:22, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --Pogregoire (talk) 17:14, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

End of voting